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Ask Alan Archive Page 2
Trap Barrel Hanger Donald Blue - 00:43 10/07/1998
What # hanger comes on 30" choke tubed o/u barrel from the factory?
Thanks,
Don Blue
Trap Barrel Hanger Alan - 06:19 10/07/1998
Don,
All K-80 barrels are patterned and regulated for point of impact before they leave the factory, this is true of spare barrels as well as complete guns, for this reason the hanger number will vary from gun to gun. Usually it will be around a number 4 for choke tubed barrels but you will sometimes see a hanger size on either side of this.
Alan
Re: Trap Barrel Hanger Donald Blue - 05:00 12/07/1998
The reason I asked this question is I have a set of 30" trap barrels that had a #1 hanger on them, I used to shoot reg. trap, but now I shoot reg. skeet , when I shot some patterns with these barrels they were shooting about 6" high at 20yds. I had these barrels fitted with small gauge tubes for skeet and I changed the hanger to a # 3 to get them to pattern where I wanted, I got these barrels used and never shot any trap with them, so I guess that whoever had them before must have changed the hanger?? Thanks alot for the quick replys.
Don Blue
: Don,
: All K-80 barrels are patterned and regulated for point of impact before they leave the factory, this is true of spare barrels as well as complete guns, for this reason the hanger number will vary from gun to gun. Usually it will be around a number 4 for choke tubed barrels but you will sometimes see a hanger size on either side of this.
: Alan
No 1.Barrel Hanger Alan - 19:00 12/07/1998
Don,
Your deductions are almost certainly correct as I have never seen a barrel leave the factory fitted with a No.1 hanger. The previous owner will have fitted this and quite possibly for doubles as the elevated point of impact can be of some help in getting the first target quickly. Glad you have it shooting where you want it now.
Alan K-80 Heavy Barrel Donald Blue - 23:46 28/07/1998
I would like to know the weight of the 28" heavy barrel, I now shoot a 30" tubed step ribbed trap barrel, I just purchased a 28" tubed skeet barrel, I'am going to switch to the 28" barrel after this years skeet season is over and I was wanting to know the weight of the heavy barrel to see how it compares to the tubed 28" barrels. I have been shooting the 20ga. in the 12ga. events because of the different feel of the gun without the tubes. I have tried the barrel weights etc. but they are not the same. I feel that with the 30" barrels it takes me longer to move them on a shot like low 5 and high 3 and it makes my doubles game harder because of the first shot placement, and in skeet the doubles are what decides the winners from the losers, shooting a hundred straight just gets you a ticket to the shoot-offs.
Thanks Alot for any info.,
Don Blue
Re: K-80 Heavy Barrel alan - 22:06 29/07/1998
Don,
We don't have the heavy barrels in the UK, just no demand as Skeet is not such a big game over here. Consequently, I don't have a set to weigh accurately. The information I have says they are approx 14 ozs heavier than the standard barrels, I guess there will be some variation from barrel to barrel. I hope this is close enough for you but if you need a more exact figure contact Krieghoff International, PA - info@krieghoff.com
Regards,
Alan Loose action Donald Blue - 02:42 03/08/1998
I would like to know, after shooting a K-80 for a while when the barrels loosen up, if there is anything that you need to keep a check on? I had a set of barrels re-done by Chris Maest in New Jersey last year, he re-done the barrel ears, the mono-block and re-blued them and fitted them to my gun, and I might add, that he done an excellent job on them. When I got them back, they were as tight as new, after a years practice with them the gun opens pretty easy now, I have no problems with the gun, everything seems ok, there is no play or anything like that in them, the barrel lever is still to the far right when closed, I was just wondering if there is anything to watch for?
I hope that your not getting tired of my questions, I can't believe that more people are not asking questions on this site, I think this is a great site, having your technical knowledge for the asking is wonderful. I have never been one too proud to ask questions, my motto has always been, when in doubt, ask someone that knows.
Thanks Alot,
Don Blue
Re: Loose action etc Alan - 22:40 03/08/1998
Don,
Firstly, your are welcome to ask as many questions as you want, as often as you want. It does not surprise me that there are not more questions as the internet is not as widely used in the UK as it is in the USA, plus the k-80 is used by only a small percentage of the competition shooters here. This is simply because the gun has not been marketed here until recently. It is gaining popularity rapidly and as the gun and this site get better known the questions will build.
Now to your question, there is nothing that you need worry about on your k-80. The gun does open easily after a bit of use but so long as the top lever still sits to the right you have a long way to go. It is just about impossible to wear out a K-80 and they can be easily tightened as you know. I have heard that Chris Maest does good work before. Do you use a good quality grease on your K-80. I put grease on the hinge pins, the barrel flats and the contact points on the barrel wings, plus of course, the forearm knuckle. I clean this grease off after use and put new grease on before I use the gun again. This is really important as grease will pick up dust and needs to be replaced every use. My guns seem to keep pretty tight even after a lot of use and I do believe it is the grease that helps this. Grease is a better lubricant under load than oil, mainly because it stays where you put it. I fitted a pair of new barrels on a demo gun and they were just as tight after a years hard use as the day I fitted them. One other thing that I always recommend is to cultivate the habit of holding the top lever across when closing the gun. It seems strange at first but becomes second nature after a few hundred targets. This stops you slamming the gun closed and prevents wear on the barrel wings.
Best regards,
Alan
Re: Loose action etc Fred Toelkes - 01:21 27/01/1999
Alan,
I have a further question on this subject: Here in the U.S. most Krieghoffs for trap are sold as "combos" with both a single and O/U barrel. My single barrel receives far more wear than the double. I am under the impression that the actions are re-tightened by installing oversized trunnions in the receiver. If the new trunnions are sized to re-tighten the single barrel, would they be too large for the O/U which has not seen nearly the wear?
This is a great site, I have found much useful information here.
Fred Rebuild K32 Rick - 00:55 25/08/1998
I have a 32 San Remo that has in fact been shot a lot. The top latch is in the center of the safety. I can't stand the thought of parting with this gun as it fits perfectly. It's time for a complete restoration and I need some input as to who and how much is appropriate to spend in such a venture. I haven't been able to talk with many others who have had a complete rebuild. Any suggestions?
Re: Rebuild K32 Alan - 09:05 25/08/1998
Rick,
I assume that you are living in the USA, if so my first call would be to my friend Norbert Hausseman at Krieghoff International 610 847 5173, just ask to speak to Norbert and tell him I suggested you call him. Norbert is a factory gunsmith of great ability and knowledge and he will be able to tell you who is the best person to go to. I have also heard good reports of Chris Maest at Clay Target Sports 609 921 9358. If you need any more information caontact me again.
Alan doubling James Tippett - 00:10 14/09/1998
I'm considering purchase of a K-80 o/u. While shooting doubles, the gun doubled on me ,firing both barrels at once. The seller claims the triggers were sent to Chris Maest at Clay Target Sports in Princeton N.J. for complete overhaul.Also claims the gun has had around 100 rounds since its "annual". I also noticed quite a bit of primer wear in the receiver on the bottom barrel.It is fairly deep and can be felt easily with the fingers. serial number is #13496. Price is $5200 U.S..Questions are, Fair price? Age of gun? Future problems? Should I be concerned about the doubling? The gun seems to be well taken care of. Nice wood, few nicks and has a new bbl.that fits receiver well.Tang stays well to the right. Thanks for your time, James Tippett Kennewick Wa. U.S.A.
Re: doubling Alan - 07:43 14/09/1998
Last question first - You do not need to be concerned about the doubling at all as this can easily be fixed. It may prove to be a one off caused by lack of familiarity with the gun but is more likely to be either a little too much clearance under the safety block or a second barrel pull that the has not quite enough sear engagement. You can check for the first by putting on the safety and then pulling the trigger, obviously the gun should not fire with the selector on either barrel but you should look to see how much sear movement you are getting before the inertia block hits the safety stud and stops you pulling the trigger any further. You will see this best if you take the stock off. To test the second look at the pull weights on each barrel, perhaps the second pull is too light. Personally, I like pull weights of 4lb both on the K-80, lighter than this and I feel you can get a double once in a while. With regard to the primer wear on the receiver, this puzzles me as I have never seen it on a K-80, the face is just too hard. K-80 firing pins are set into a block, this block extends forward around the pins and protrudes through the breech face. If you look closely you will see it. My guess is that this block has moved backwards a little and this is what you can feel. Once again this is easily fixed as Krieghoff provide a new bush for this block which is drilled in place and pulls the block forward again. I would call Chris Maest and ask if he knows the gun and explain the problems to him, he will probably give you an honest answer. Alternatively you can call Norbert Hausemann at Krieghoff International (610 847 5173) Norbert is very experienced on the K-80 and will be able to tell you how it is. Neither of these problems are anything major and can easily be fixed but I would get the gun looked at by a Krieghoff appointed service centre before parting with any money. As Chris Maest knows the gun he perhaps he can give you an opinion. With regard to age my best guess would be around 1985/86 but Norbert can proably give you a more exact date. I can't give you much of an opinion on value as all my data refers to the UK market and so much depends on condition. A really nice K-80 with ggod wood etc could fetch around the same money over here. One last point, all k-80 guns can be brought up to the same specification as the latest models as nearly all the parts will fit. For example, the sear springs can be changes from the bent wire type to the latest coil spring. There is no need to do this but it can be done if it is your preference. An exception is the latest hammer type, it is too wide at the bottom to fit into the older receivers. Sorry that I can't be more specific without seeing the gun.
Alan RemovableTriggers James Tippett - 21:39 16/09/1998
Are there any advantages/disadvantages to the removable trigger, and does it justify the added cost. Also how easy is it to change a double release into a release/pull in a removable trigger.
Re: RemovableTriggers Alan - 07:22 17/09/1998
The advantage of the RT over the classic K-80 is the ease of changing from Pull to Release trigger - this is the sole reason it was made. To do this requires that you have two trigger assemblies of course, one Pull and the other Release or Release/Pull. Krieghoff International are able to change a double release into a release pull without any problem, however the setting up of release triggers in an RT is a job for a skilled and experienced smith - experienced with regard to the K-80 RT that is. This is why I would recommend that either Krieghoff International at Ottsville do the job or someone recommended by them. It is definitely not a do-it-yourself project.
Alan Wrong barrel firing Barry - 19:37 21/09/1998
I have a model 32 with Briley tubes, that I use for american skeet. My question regards a problem that I h sometimes have on my doubles shots in sub-gauges. It may be that I am not opening the gun far enough to cock the bottom barrel as I am usually shooting a smaller gauge. Is this a common problem that occurs with this gun or is it the way I'm opening the gun. I have the barrel selector set to shoot the bottom barrel first.
Wrong barrel firing Alan - 09:16 22/09/1998
Barry, you have not told me what the problem you are having is. I guess that after you have opened the gun and reloaded, the top barrel is firing first even though you have the selector set for bottom. Is this so?. If so, does the bottom barrel fire if you pull the trigger a second time? If it doesn't then the problem is with cocking on opening, if it does fire then you have another problem. My best guess would be a broken or weak "straight spring", this is the staight piece of spring wire that sits on top of the trigger unit and hooks into the selector pear (the conical ball that switches from side to side under the sears) If this spring is weak or broken the selector is too lazy to switch back to first barrel firing and stays put under the second sear. If the gun is not cocking on opening you still have a problem. Model 32s and K-80s are both designed to cock before ejection, it should not be possible to remove a fired 12b case from the bottom barrel until after the gun has cocked, simply because the barrels need to open beyond the point of cocking before the fired case can clear the breech face. It may be possible with a sub gauge to get the case out before this point has been reached. You need to check this. Open the barrels very slowly, you should hear the click of the hammers cocking before the gun ejects. Also remove the stock and take a look at the selector spring, it may appear to be whole but switching the selector lever back and forward will show you if it is working ok. Get back to me and let me know what you find.
Alan. Weak Ejectors Ivor Henry - 13:06 27/09/1998
Alan can anything be done to improve the strength on the ejectors?
Ejectors Alan - 19:53 27/09/1998
In short - Yes!. K-80 ejectors are not particularily strong as it is felt that they only need to eject the case - not throw it into the next County. With some cartridges available in the UK however, the springs are not strong enough to throw the case clear of the chamber every time, this problem can be worse in cold weather due to the stiffness of the plastic. Acknowledging this problem, Krieghoff have made available stronger ejector springs, these make quite a difference. Changing the springs is a simple and inexpensive job, it is something that I can do for you at a shoot within about 10 -15 mins. Give me a call and I am sure we can arrange something in the near future. Alan Porting/Forcing cones/Recoil reduction James Tippett - 05:46 29/09/1998
I'm thinking of porting my k-80 combo. Although my k-80 has less recoil than many shotguns I've tried,I would like to reduce it, and muzzle lift even further. My question is, should I have the forcing cones lengthened as well.My understanding is that Krieghoff has designed the barrels for optimum performance in that regard, but there are so many barrel men in the U.S. that claim to improve on it, that I felt the question should be raised.Also understand that I shot an 1100 Target marathon over the weekend so recoil is defininitly an issue that is on my mind.I'm also considering a mercury reducer in the stock. As for the porting itself, I'm thinking of having Mag-na-port do the job.They claim larger high volume ports are more effective than many small ones. What do you think. By the way, I love this page and wonder why more Krieghoff owners don't take advantage of it, keep up the good work..Jim Tippett
Re: Forcing cones Alan - 16:21 29/09/1998
The forcing cones of a K-80 are already lengthened. If you look from the breech end against a good strong light you will see that they extend a good way into the bore. I would definitely NOT recommend having any work done in this area. As you say, krieghoff barrel design is an interaction between all the different elements - forcing cone - bore size - choke forcing cone and choke taper. Change one of these and you run the real risk of spoiling the performance altogether. With regard to porting I can't say that I have enough experience of it to be able to give you any specific recommendations. Porting is not popular in the UK and a ported gun loses a lot of market value. Our Trap rules do not allow ported barrels on the line. What little experience I have of ported barrels has not convinced me of the benefit, there may be some reduction in muzzle flip but not one I could detect. As far as recoil reduction went, I could detect nothing at all. The principle is sound and it does work on rifles and handguns but I remain unconvinced on shotguns. I stress that this is my personal opinion. If you are going to get the barrels ported than you should go to one of the well know firms who have a lot of experience in porting, the one you mention for example. Recoil reducers in the stock can help cut down recoil over a long session and you could consider one of the recoil reducing stocks such as G-squared, Danuser, Soft Touch etc. These really do reduce recoil if you don't mind the appearance. If you have a really nice piece of wood on your gun I would recommend getting a standard grade stock to have the conversion done on. that way you still have the original and will have protected the resale value of the gun. Thanks for the comments on the page. As word gets around I am sure that more people will use it but you have to remember that the web is not nearly so much used in the UK as it is in the USA.
Alan Sempert & Krieghoff, Suhl mod.Waldschutz dural Raymond Holth - 11:24 17/10/1998
Hello! Could anyone help? I have a,
"SEMPERT & KRIEGHOFF, SUHL" Cal. 16/65 8x57JRS.
I got it from my grandfather.
This drilling i produced april 1943. Mod. Dural Waldschutz.
It is engraved, on the barell it is a german eagle.
It is in very good condision.
I would like to know if anyone know something about this gun.
Raymond Holth
Kongsvinger
Norway
Re: Sempert & Krieghoff, Suhl mod.Waldschutz dural raymond holth - 09:43 19/10/1998
: Hello! Could anyone help? I have a,
: "SEMPERT & KRIEGHOFF, SUHL" Cal. 16/65 8x57JRS.
: I got it from my grandfather.
: This drilling i produced april 1943. Mod. Dural Waldschutz.
: It is engraved, on the barell it is a german eagle.
: It is in very good condision.
: I would like to know if anyone know something about this gun.
: Raymond Holth
: Kongsvinger
: Norway
Re: Sempert & Krieghoff Alan - 18:23 19/10/1998
Raymond,
Your drilling was manufactured by Krieghoff when the company was located in Suhl in the east of Germany. At the end of the war the Russians blew up the Krieghoff factory in Suhl and the family were evacuated by the Americans to the town of Ulm in the West where the company is now located. If you can let me have the serial number of the gun it is possible that I can find out some more information for you from the factory although records from this period are not complete. If you prefer you can contact the factory directly at http://www.Krieghoff.de
Alan
Re: Sempert & Krieghoff Raymond Holth - 10:33 20/10/1998
: Raymond,
: Your drilling was manufactured by Krieghoff when the company was located in Suhl in the east of Germany. At the end of the war the Russians blew up the Krieghoff factory in Suhl and the family were evacuated by the Americans to the town of Ulm in the West where the company is now located. If you can let me have the serial number of the gun it is possible that I can find out some more information for you from the factory although records from this period are not complete. If you prefer you can contact the factory directly at http://www.Krieghoff.de
: Alan
Hello Alan!
Thank you for your very fast reply on our subject.
Regarding the drilling: The serial number is 21604. Under the barrel it is written ROCHLING ELEKTRO and KRUPP-LAUF.
It is also a HOLLAND & HOLLAND recoil pad.
What do you think this drilling is worth for a collector?
Best regards
Raymond
Re: Sempert & Krieghoff Alan - 16:07 20/10/1998
Raymond,
Thanks for the information. i will pass this on to the factory and ask if they can supply any other information. The markings on the barrel refer to the type of steel and the manufacturing process but give no guide as to the model type. As to value, I really am not able to say because so much depends on grade and condition. Maybe the factory will be able to tell me more about the grade etc. I will come back to you when I have a reply from them, it may be a few days.
Alan
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