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Ask Alan Archive Page 6
K32 with K80 upgrades Gene Batchelar - 06:34 22/11/1999
I've been offered a chance to buy an almost new K32, shot very little. If I were to have it upgraded to include as many changes as possible from the current K80 design, including barrels, what, specifically, would they be? While the gun says K32 on the outside, is it really a K80 inside? Were the receivers on the K32 made of the same metal as the K80? Or has technology in steel making made the K32 receiver 'weaker' than the present day K80 receiver? Color me puzzled. Thanks.
Re: K32 with K80 upgrades Alan - 12:01 22/11/1999
I've been offered a chance to buy an almost new K32, shot very little. If I were to have it Before I can give you a detailed answer to this one I need to know the serial number of K32 and as much information as you can tell me. Is the receiver blued or nickel? Where is the little lever that holds back the top latch - side of receiver or tucked back almost underneath the top latch? How are the ejectors held in place in the barrels - visible securing screw or ball detent? come back and I will give you the information.
Re: K32 with K80 upgrades Gene Batchelar - 18:07 11/12/1999
Alan:
Went to see the gun. Not for me, so I didn't get all the info you asked for. Seller has it set up with a complete set of Kolar skeet tubes I don't need. Only has the O/U barrel and I'm looking for a combo with an unsingle. Thanks for the response.
Re: K32 with K80 upgrades Alan - 21:47 11/12/1999
You are welcome any time. Sorry this one didn't work out but I'm sure there is a K-80 combo with your name on it out there somewhere.
Alan
Mystery Rifle Richard Praegitzer - 06:24 24/11/1999
I have a Rifle that no one around here kows anything about and I was hoping you could help me.
This rifle has no name on it, it is an over and under 16 gauge on top and a 7 mm on bottom barrle, a incert
barrle is provided that is inserted into the shotgun barrle to allow a 22 Cal. ammo to be shot.
the 22 Cal. barrle is the only piece that has any name on it "SEMPTER KRIEGHOFF" Along with
CAl. 16 - 22 I.F.B. Serial #7017
The rifle has the serial # 48229, it has something like a crown with letters by it "St.m.c."
On the left side of the barrle there is a eagle of some sort with the word "Nitro"
there is also a scope with the name "OIGEE" berlin, on the adjustment screw is the word "LUXOR 6x 106812"
Any help any one can provide me will be appriciated.
Re: Mystery Rifle Alan - 11:47 24/11/1999
The name on the insert barrel is "Sempert & Krieghoff", the trading style of Krieghoff before the war. The original factory was in Suhl and totally destroyed during the war. Records from that time are virtually none but the factory do have some general historical knowledge but nothing on specific guns. If you would like to email them at krieghoff@krieghoff.de they may be able to tell you if the whole rifle was made by Krieghoff or just the insert barrel.
Alan
Prices Daniel Wall - 18:36 06/12/1999
I am trying to locate a Price guide for K-80's. One gun in perticular is a K-80 Sporting, Gold Bavarian Coin Finish, boughten from Hal DuPont. The Gun is in mint condition and Magna Ported. I am just trying to get a price on it. Any information would be greatly appreciated!
Re: Prices Alan - 19:06 06/12/1999
As I am located in the UK I do not have US price information. If you contact Krieghoff International (info@krieghoff.com) I am sure they will be able to help.
Alan
K80 Serial Number/Production Dates Gene Batchelar - 18:05 11/12/1999
Saw 2 K80s for sale, serial #214xx and 206xx. Wondering if you can give an estimate of their production dates? Thanks
Re: K80 Serial Number/Production Dates Alan - 19:07 11/12/1999
Serial number 206XXX is almost certainly early 1989 - Feb - March. 214XX will be late 1990, possibly early 1992.
Alan.
Trumph--Drilling--Zeiss Henry(Hank) Stewart - 18:43 11/12/1999
Love my drilling, goes with me everywhere on ranch. Use it for everything from rattle snakes to varmints to dove & quail. Shot 3 deer Nov. 6, about as many as I could handle considering the time it took to skin, cut and grind and wrap plus feed cattle. Very little help from wife. Also had to have my German Wirehaired Pointer blood trail one deer 70 yards in heavy brush. Wife says get yesterdays afternoon quail out of refrigerator now! Hate cleaning game:(
Re: Trumph--Drilling--Zeiss Alan - 21:45 11/12/1999
Glad to here you are enjoying your Drilling - the Krieghoff Trumpf is a nice piece of kit. It amazes me that they are not more popular in the U.S., as in mainland Europe it is the gun of choice for many hunters. Anyway, thanks for sharing with us.
Alan
Krieghoff Drilling in 7.8 mm X 57 cal Peter H. Proctor - 23:13 12/12/1999
I have recently aquired an old Krigehoff drilling, serial #14xxx. The 16 guage shot gun barrels are obvious, but the rifle barrel is given as 7.8 X 57 cal, which I assumed was either 7 mm or 7.9 X 57 mm Mauser. Niether fits and I can't find my copy of "Cartriges of the World". Can't find it listed in any other book either. What is this round and where can I find it ? Any help would be appreciated..
Thanks,
Peter
Re: Krieghoff Drilling in 7.8 mm X 57 cal Alan - 17:59 13/12/1999
You have us puzzled here. I checked with the factory and they have no knowledge of ever making a rifle in a calibre of that description. Best guess from them is that it is an old 8x57IR. Hope you have some success in identifying it.
Alan
Re: Krieghoff Drilling in 7.8 mm X 57 cal Peter H. Proctor - 17:26 14/12/1999
You have us puzzled here. I checked with the factory and they have no knowledge of ever making a rifle in a calibre of that description. Best guess from them is that it is an old 8x57IR. Hope you have some success in identifying it.
This was my first assumption. So I tried a 8x57R Mauser to 32 acp adapter.(not sure if this is same as "IR" ). Didn't fit (chamber was too small in diameter). The barrel seems to be a 7.9 mm. Leastwise .321 cal bullets fit, while .308's are a little loose. Time to make a cast of the chamber...
Peter
barrel hanger Douglas S. Miller - 15:48 25/12/1999
I just got a K5 used with choke tubes. My question is what point of impact do I have with a number 7 hanger?Some friends of mine have K5's but no choke tubes so they can't help me. My book only goes to 6. I want a 50-50 point of impact. Thank you for any help.
Steve
Re: barrel hanger Alan - 10:08 26/12/1999
Difficult for me to help you on this one as we do not have the KS-5 in the Britain - we do not shoot Trap with a single barrel. You can find out for sure by e-mailing Krieghoff International, info@krieghoff.com but I do not know when they are first open again after the holiday. Are your choke tubes factory fitted with a bigger barrel diameter at the muzzle or are they an aftermarket conversion by Briley, Ballistic or similar. If an aftermarket conversion the hanger sizes will be the same as for fixed choke and I suspect that your gun is a conversion because I do not think screw-in choke hangers go up to a number 7, they don't on the K-80, whilst fixed choke hangers go up to number 9. In any event you should be aware that all guns shoot differently and you need to find out the point of impact by patterning. Once you have done this it is a simple matter to change the hanger to get the impact you want. Each hanger change will alter impact approximately 3 - 4" at 40 yards, depending on barrel length etc. Small numbers shoot higher, big numbers shoot lower. A number 7, as a guess will be 50/50 or very close but you need to pattern to check. Sorry I can't be more help.
Alan
gun fit and my new signature sporter Glen Unwin - 22:47 27/12/1999
Would it be a good ider to have my new gun fitted,buy your good self.
when i look down the rib of the gun is nice and flat just like my old 425 g6 but have been told that the gun will fire high due to the hige rib and do thay fire high any way, I hope not I want to shoot sporting only so is the gun ok or is there somthing that can be done.
Re: gun fit and my new signature sporter Alan - 17:23 28/12/1999
Your Signature Sporter will shoot flat in spite of how it appears looking at the rib height. On a conventional gun a rib elevated at the back would raise the point of impact but a Krieghoff is not a conventional gun. Every Krieghoff is pattern tested before it leaves the factory and, in the case of a Sporter model, the impact point of both barrels is set to the same point which will be approximately 60/40. That is to say that if you aim at a mark 60% of the pattern will be above the mark and 40% below, this is generally regarded as perfect for Sporting. As far as gun fit is concerned you need to decide if you have a problem with the stock as it is. You already tell me that you are looking flat down the rib so it would appear the height is OK. Next look at the length and the question here is can you mount the gun easily and quickly without it snagging on your clothing? If you can and you have some clearance between the tip of your nose and the base of your thumb (when the gun is mounted) then the length is fine. If your eye is central above the rib and the length and height are correct then I would say the fit is probably pretty close. By all means have it checked but make sure you go to someone who knows what he is doing. My advice is to shoot the gun for a while and get used to it before making any changes.
Alan
price Steve Fox - 05:22 29/12/1999
I have a K-80 unsingle superscroll. The stock is custom made out of western maple, very light and lots of grain. What would be a reasonable asking price? 98%
Re: price Alan - 09:12 29/12/1999
Sorry Steve, but as I have often said I cannot advise on prices in the United States as I am based in the UK and I simply do not have any price information, new or used, for the US. The unsingle is not even sold here as we have no use for a single barrel gun. Best bet is to make contact with one of Krieghoff International's main dealers, you will find many of them advertise in "Trap & Field". If you have trouble finding a dealer ask Krieghoff International (info@krieghoff.com) for an address. The only other problem that I can forsee with regard to price is the none factory stock. A Maple stock will have been fitted after sale as a custom job and it is very difficult to put a price on any work not done by Krieghoff. A dealer should still be able to help but I he may want to see the gun before quoting a price.
Alan
Point of Impact Leo - 20:17 29/12/1999
I am thinking of purchasing a new K80 combo here in the US. I have had problems in the past with other manufacturers over/under barrels not shooting to the same point of impact. Is this a problem with the K80? I shoot trap doubles and this is important to me. Thanks - a great site.
Re: Point of Impact Alan - 23:16 29/12/1999
The K-80 may prove to be the ideal gun for you because you can tune the point of impact to your own specific requirements. When you order the gun you can of course specify that you want both barrels shooting through the same hole but you can change this at a later date if you find you need something different. The top barrel impact in relation to the rib is fixed but the bottom barrel is attached by means of a numbered hanger. These hangers can be changed and each change will alter the point of impact of the bottom barrel. The hangers are numbered 1 to 6 for screw-in choke barrels and 1 to 9 for fixed choke barrels. No 1 measures 0.5 mm and no 2 1.0mm and so on. Each 0.5mm change in hanger size will move the impact approximately 7" inches at 40 yards, this figure will vary from gun to gun depending on barrel length etc. Many doubles shooters set up the bottom barrel to shoot higher than the top but if your preference is the same impact that is not a problem. Small numbers raise the impact, big numbers lower it. As a point of interest the reason there are 9 hangers for fixed choke barrels but only 6 for screw-in choke is simply that the screw-in choke barrels are bigger at the muzzle and are therefore already further apart.
Alan
k32 replacement barrels. Edward Holland - 07:07 04/01/2000
I own two k32's. I am exploring options regarding either replacing a set with barrels with screw in chokes, or choking the barrels of one of my guns. I have enjoyed shooting trap events for many years and am now getting into clays. I do not wish to purchase a new shotgun as these perform beautifully. what are my options and what sort of costs will I encounter? Also, would barrels from a remington 32 be a consideration? Any help would be appreciated.
K-32 replacement barrels. Alan - 08:47 04/01/2000
Additional barrels will be no problem as current K-80 barrels will fit your Model 32s. as with all new barrels, some fitting is required but this is usually minimal. It is possible that a slight modification will be needed to the extractors but again this is a small job. If you let me know in what country you are situated I can advise where you can obtain new barrels. I only have price information for the UK. Remington Model 3200 barrels wil not fit, older Remington 32 barrels may do so but I would think that some work would be required. As the Remington 32 has not been made since before the war I would think it easier to find used Krieghoff Model 32 or K-80 barrels.
Best regards,
Alan
factory matt demshar - 07:45 04/01/2000
I will be in Austria for 10 days in February and would like to visit the Ulm factory. What are the hours and what do I need to do to get inside?
Re: factory Alan - 08:40 04/01/2000
I am sure that Krieghoff will be pleased to give you a tour whilst you are in Ulm. Contact Peter Brass at the factory directly and he will advise you on a suitable date and time. His e-mail address is pb@krieghoff.de Please note that the factory is closed until Monday 10th January so do not expect a reply until after that date.
Alan
K-80 Pidgeon grade? Joe McCullough - 01:47 05/01/2000
I saw an advertisment for a K-80, skeet, 28" barrels, 12 ga. w/ sub gauge tubes. The 28" barrels & the price interest me for skeet & sporting clays. I can't find anything on any K-80 Pidgeon grade. Is there such a thing. It has Briley choke tubes. Were these added lalater? How old a model is this gun, assuming it exists? Thanks!!
Re: K-80 Pidgeon grade? Alan - 08:24 05/01/2000
I need a serial number before I can provide any information as my mystical powers seem to have faded a little over the holiday period. The Krieghoff factory in Ulm do fit Briley chokes as an option but those K-80s destined for the US market are usually not converted at the factory, it is left top the purchaser to take up that option with Briley direct. With regard to the "Pigeon Grade" that is not listed as a standard engraving specification but I have heard the term in relation to a K-80 before. Krieghoff International at Ottsville will be able to provide you with more information but they will also need the serial number to look it up in their records. Their e-mail is info@krieghoff.com
Alan
K-32 upgrades Tim McClarty - 02:41 05/01/2000
Hello Alan,
Let me start by saying I think you are doing great service for Krieghoff with your web page. Initially knowing very little myself about your shotgun, I have learned much from this site. I have been shooting clays for 2 years now and am about to purchase my first pre-owned Krieghoff. I am interested in an older Model 32 and am wondering what K-80 upgrades are available or necessary on this gun.
The serial number is 2849 and the gun is in completely original condition. I've also noticed in the specs provided that the forcing cones are 1 3/4". Is this short compared to current K-80 barrels? The barrels are 32" choked IM/F. I will be using the gun mainly for sporting and prefer to shoot tight chokes but not usually this tight. If I desire some of the choke to be removed from one or both barrels and the forcing cones lengthened, will Krieghoff service dept.
handle this work for me?
Thanks for the information.
Tim
Re: K-32 upgrades Alan - 08:37 05/01/2000
Thank you for your posititve feedback. Glad to hear you are thinking of joining the Krieghoff "family". A K32 is a good place to start and many of the later K-80 features can be added if desired. Personally, I would shoot the gun as is for a while and only change the things that I really couldn't live with. The number you quote is from a very early K32, those guns closed out in the high 11000s. One thing you will not be able to change is the top latch hold back catch. On the early 32s it was a small lever situated right back under the latch, later guns and the K-80 have a much bigger lever that sticks up in front of the top latch. No problem with the earlier type but the later one is much easier to release and the gun closes with a little less effort. Forcing cone length sounds short but all K32s I have seen in the UK have had cones the same length as the K-80 and I would think yours is the same. Choke modification is no problem and Krieghoff International Service dept will be able to do that and any other modifications you need. I suggest you call Norbert Haussman, the Service Manager, on 1 610 847 5173 and have a chat about your gun. Norbert was originally in the factory in Germany and will be able to give you some good advice and points to look out for. You can email him on service@krieghoff.com
Re: K-32 upgrades Tim McClarty - 16:48 07/01/2000
Thanks for the information Alan. Can you tell me the exact date of manufacture from the serial number of this gun (2849)?
Re: K-32 upgrades Alan - 18:09 07/01/2000
My best estimate would be 1965-66 but I will call the factory on Monday and see if they can give me an exact date.
K32 date Alan - 15:38 12/01/2000
Further to my earlier reply, the date should be marked as a part of the proof marks on the barrel. German proof marks at that time included the month and last two year digits, for example 05/65 would give a date of May 1965. If the barrels of your gun are original to the gun then you will find the date as described.
K-80 Pidgeon grade Skeet 28" barrels? Joe McCullough - 01:21 07/01/2000
The catalog for K-80's does not shot any pidgeon grade skeet model. There is one advertised for sale & I wonder what it could be? What stock, etc.?? Can you help me??
Re: K-80 Pigeon grade Skeet 28" barrels? Alan - 18:06 07/01/2000
Further to my earlier reply to the same question - I need the serial number to identify the gun. Without a number I cannot even guess what the specification is. As you say the catalogue does not show a current Pigeon Grade but if I have the number it is a simple matter for me to check with the factory and find out what the original specification was.
Alan
Barrels Leo - 21:56 12/01/2000
Thank you for your answer on point of impact.
Here in the states, must people shoot doubles with 32 inch baarrels. Do you recommend a 30 or 32 inch barrel, and what type of chokes (fixed or tubed)?
How full is full on the fixed choke? What is the measurement?
Re: Barrels Alan - 09:14 13/01/2000
Leo,
The choice of 30 or 32" barrels for doubles has to be down to personal preference. 32" barrels will be a little steadier coming across for the second shot whilst 30" may be a little quicker, great if you can control it. I have not shot enough doubles here to be able to give you an honest answer as to what I prefer. I would always reommend screw-in chokes over fixed for two reasons. 1) You can fine tune to exactly the choke you want for each target. 2) I believe that the screw-in chokes throw better patterns than most fixed choke barrels. I know that fixed chokes can be worked on to improve patterns but so can screw-in chokes. All being equal, screw-in chokes will normally be more consistent (in a K-80 that is, I can't speak for other manufacturers) Pattern is a performance and the degree of choke constriction is only one part of the equation. The K-80 choke is one part of a fine tuned package which includes forcing cones and bore size. Taken together they throw superb Full choke patterns but you will find that the choke itself will normally measure less than the traditional 40 thou. If you were to have a choke of 40 thou in a K-80 it would be overchoked and would spoil the patterns. The guys in the factory know what they are doing and every K-80 barrel is pattern tested before it leaves the factory, we are not talking about box movers here.
Alan
K-32/K-80 barrel retrofit jack bisinger - 13:22 14/01/2000
dear Alan: Can the K-80 spare barrels listed under your usedgun category be retrofitted to a K-32 single gun?If so, can you estimate the cost? Thanks, Jack.
Re: K-32/K-80 barrel retrofit Alan - 22:33 14/01/2000
Jack,
New K-80 barrels can be fitted to Model 32s and so can used K-80 barrels under the same conditions that they can be re-fitted to K-80s. By this I mean that once a pair of barrels have been fitted to a gun, K-80 or K-32, it may be that too much metal has been removed to re-fit them to another gun. The most common area is the forearm lug under the barrels, if there is not enough metal on this you will have a gap between the knuckle of the receiver and the forearm iron. It is possible to do something about this but not without a lot of expense, in Britain anyway. If we build up the lug on the barrel we have to send the barrels for proof testing - that is law. Any heat treatment on the barrels automatically renders the prood void. the other area may be the breech face of the barrels as fitting to a previous gun may mean that they are "off the face" on the next. That is to say there is a gap between the barrels and breech face, maybe only visible against a strong light but still technically off the face. Oversize hinge screws will probably correct this unless your gun already has them fitted. Cost of fitting, if possible, depends on the work involved but I am pretty certain it would not be viable to ship your gun to the UK for this work (if I guess correctly and you are in the US)
Alan
K-32 to K-80 barrel retrofit jack - 18:26 14/01/2000
Dear Alan: I have a K-32 wih single bbl. Can your used over/under barrels be fitted to this gun? If so, can you estimate pricing at your location? Thanks, Jack
Re: K-32 to K-80 barrel retrofit Alan - 22:40 14/01/2000
Jack,
As for your earlier question, there is no reason why over/under barrels cannot be fitted to a K-32 with a single barrel so long as there is enough metal to work with. One point I did not make in my earlier answer is that new barrels supplied by the factory for retro-fitting are slightly oversize. Typically a very small amount may need to polished off the face of the barrels to bring the wings down onto the receiver (but not always) and the barrel lug will need filing to allow the forearm iron to fit. The shoulders of the barrel wings will need cutting to bring the top lever over to the correct position and that is it. Problem with used barrels is that they may be too small in all these dimensions before you start and then you have a lot of work to do to put things right. If ever you get a set of used barrels and try them on yout gun, you are looking good if they are tight, if the foreatm will not go on, or is very tight, and if you are very lucky, the top lever sticks way out to the right. In this case there is a pretty good chance the barrels can be fitted to your gun.
Alan
K-32 with K-80 updates Ed - 03:14 20/01/2000
Alan, great site. I just stumbled upon it and enjoyed reading your replies.
In December of 1995, I purchased a pair of new K-32 top single combos with Vandalia ribbed barrels. Both guns were fitted with upgraded K-80 wood, mine Super Scroll and my son's Barvaria. Mine had K-80 hammers (2nd design, I understand), a K-80 trigger group and double releases fitted before it was shipped out by duPont/Krieghoff. My son shoots very infrequently and uses a pull trigger, so his is original internally. The serial numbers are 98XX (mine) and 10,4XX.
Can you please tell me if there are any additional K-80 updates mine should have and the dates of manufacture of the guns?
Thanks,
Ed
Re: K-32 with K-80 updates Alan - 12:10 20/01/2000
Glad you enjoy this section. the whole site is in the process of being updated and should go online next week. I think you will like it even more.
Now to business. Difficult to put an exact date on older 32s, the factory can look it up but I hesitate to ask when I know they are busy. One day we will compile a date list, I do keep asking. Best estimate is 1987 for a serial number of 10,000, that makes the aerlier gun around 1986/87 and the later one 1987/88. Best I can do. with regard to action updates the second type hammers are about as far as you can go on the striking mechanism. It should be possible to change the sear spring system from the bent wire springs to the new K-80 coils but it will be an expensive upgrade. You will need a new top lever guide block as this anchors the base of the springs; two new sears (or get the originals machined to accept the springs - they are very hard); two sear springs and their guides. In addition to this the two side plates will have to be modified in shape or changed. It can be done but it will not be cheap. The only reason for doing this is to overcome the very occassional problem of sear spring breakage. You can talk to Krieghoff International in Ottsville PA for an estimate (service@krieghoff.com)
Alan
DATE CORRECTION Alan - 09:18 29/01/2000
Sorry but I have made a mistake when quoting the dates for the Model 32. Dieter Krieghoff has thankfully brought this to my attention. The Model 32 ceased production at around serial number 11800 and that was during 1980/81. This means that Model 32 serial number 10000 would be around 1977 and the later one 1977/78, not the late 80s as I quoted. I know it but still typed the wrong date. Sorry guys.
Alan
K80 Serial Number/Production Dates Gene Batchelar - 22:10 20/01/2000
Alan:
Am on the trail of a used standard grade K80 with a serial number of 22xxx. Appreciate your opinion of its age. I don't have the entire serial number. Thanks for any info you have.
Re: K80 Serial Number/Production Dates Alan - 09:21 29/01/2000
Early 22000s will be 1992, late 22000 will be 1993.
Alan
To by a used drilling. Reinhard Hvidsten - 15:24 21/01/2000
I am going to Karlsruhe in Germany this spring,and i was hoping to by a used drilling on this trip.
It has been hard for me to find information about what modells i shuld look for, and also info on gundealers in this area. I want a plain functionel drilling cal.12/6,5*55 or7,57r ect.
Do you have any links or somthing i can start working on. Reinhard.
Re: To by a used drilling. Alan - 15:49 21/01/2000
A good place to start would be the Krieghoff factory website - www.krieghoff.de - as you will find information on Drillings there. Also look under their "Dealer" section and you may find a dealer near to Karlsruhe. Sorry I cannot help directly but I am based in the UK and do not have a lot of information on dealers in Germany.
Alan
Chokes Leo - 22:09 25/01/2000
Alan, I'm still trying to decide between fixed and tube chokes for the new K80 that I am going to buy (for the single barrel only). I understand the barrel diameter of the K80 is approximately .735(?). For the fixed choke, can you tell me how far from the end of the barrel the conical choke starts, how much parallel is in the choke, and the diameter of the choke. I really prefer the fixed choke for cleaning, etc., but I really want the best choke for shooting from the 27 yd. line. THANKS.
Re: Chokes Alan - 18:44 26/01/2000
I am having a tough time giving you an answer to this one as I have never measured exactly the profile of the choke. What I am willing to bet though is that no two guns with fixed chokes will be the same as the barrel regulator will make any changes he thinks are needed when he pattern tests the barrels. It is also true that the length of parrallel section will vary depending on the amount of constricion in the barrel. Before I go to a lot of time and trouble trying to measure a few barrels to come up with an average, tell me what help the information will be to you. The proof of a barrel is in the shooting and not in what it measures. The length of parallel section, the angle of the taper and the diameter cannot give any indication of how the gun will pattern when you shoot it. A fundemental part of shooting is patterning your gun and finding which load shoots the sweetest. I understand where you are coming from but I don't believe that measurements will help you decide. In my experience the choke tubed barrels pattern better, plus you have the opportunity to regulate individual choke tubes for different loads with no greater risk than trashing the tube. You can't do this with a pair of fixed choke barrels or it might get expensive. As for the cleaning, I agree that fixed chokes are easiest but I do not remove my chokes when I clean the barrels, in fact I treat it exactly as if it had fixed chokes. the only concesion I make is to periodically check that the tubes are not stuck and also that there is no carbon building up behind. I have never found any carbon on K-80 chokes and I have never had one stick. I keep the threads lubed with a little grease and that is all. I almost never change the chokes in my Trap gun so I guess that proves I only shoot screw-ins because I like the pattern better.
Alan
Re: Chokes Leo - 14:58 27/01/2000
Alan, thanks for the comments about the chokes. The reason I asked for the measurements was that I read somewhere that the ideal choke had a 11/2" taper and 1/2" parallel. I have done a lot of pattern work, and I agree with you, you don't know what you have until you try it.
You've convinced me, I'm going with the screw-in chokes. Thanks.
shot hardness jack - 14:48 31/01/2000
Dear Alan: Maybe you have time for a non-Kreighoff question..... Here in the U>S> many of us reload. The search for improved pattern uniformity has led me to consider shot having greater than 6% antimony content. Are you aware of any shot (as a component) or "new" shells having this advantage ? For ex., Lyalvale (?)? I know this question is out of your usual domain but over here there seems to be almost a monopoly with regards to shot. Thanks, Jack
Re: shot hardness Alan - 16:55 31/01/2000
I am aware that reloading is big in the U.S. and of the fact that hard shot provides better patterns. What is strange to me is that you are looking to the U.K. for hard shot! We have been cursed for years by manufacturers loading shot of insufficient hardness into our Trap shells, even now most shells sold here for Trap have 3%, or less, antimony content. The top-of-the-line ranges will only have 5%, so you can see what I mean. It was Mumtaz Al Daftary, the founder of Express, who first started loading hard shot and it was only because of this that the others went up to 3% and 5%. Mumtaz is no longer at Express and I do not know what they currently load but they no longer advertise 8% for example, I may ask them. To show the other side of the coin, most manufacturers here would say that there is no need for shot any harder than 5% antimony as after that the increases in hardness are small and partly offset by a little loss of weight. there is some truth in this and 5% does pattern very well. I used to be in the shot making business and I know that after a certain point the gains in hardness do tail off. I once had a very convincing arguement put to me by a European shotshell manufacturer who said that just under 3% antimony was the optimum for shotshells. He had done much testing and was of the opinion that 3% was hard enough to pattern well but soft enough to just flatten slightly when it hit the rim of the target. He was convinced that hard shot had a tendency to "drill" through the target without deforming and did not always break it. His reasoning was that the softer pellet deformed slightly and at that instant transmitted it's energy to the target causing it to break. To give you an idea of how much testing he had done he said that the perfect antimony content was 2.7%. Again, I think that there is truth in this but it may be that the harder shot gives more strikes on target and therefore breaks better in spite of it's hardness. How about that then? Not bad for a non-Krieghoff question.
Re: shot hardness jack - 12:44 01/02/2000
:
Alan: Thanks very much. As we say on this side of the pnd, "You're the man"! Jack
Current Model Leo - 14:29 01/02/2000
Alan, two more questions and I won't bother you anymore. I am seeing two different engravings on the new standard K80. On one, the bottom has in big letters K80, ULM WEST GERMANY. On the other, the bottom has a small triangle with K80 in it and then GERMANY. What model is the most current model? Also, are the barrels of the K80 chrome lined? Thanks.
Re: Current Model alan - 15:31 01/02/2000
Leo,
your questions are not a bother, that is what this page is here for. Seriously, I welcome your questions - the more the merrier as we say over here. The current engraving on the underside of the receiver of standard guns is a shield with K-80 inside it and the word "Germany", at least it is on the guns that I get here in the UK. This can sometimes vary though especially depending on the engraving style. The easiest way to tell which is the latest model is by looking at the serial number. The higher the number the newer the gun. the barrels of the K-80 are not chrome lined as Krieghoff believe, and I agree with them, that chrome lined bores can be a problem if you need any work done. The simple job of raising a dent can be quite scary when chrome bores are inolved as there is always a risk that th chrome will separate from the bore wall when the dent is raised (traditional way by peening).
Alan
30" vs. 32" K80 Greg Lepper - 23:52 06/02/2000
Dear Alan,
I just found your question/answer page. Congratulations on a very informative site.
I have a couple of questions. First, I have been shooting a gas auto for sporting. I like the reduced recoil and long sighting plane. Recently I shot a friend's K80 with regular weight, 30" barrels. He's had the gun fitted and it just happens to have the same dimensions as my B 390. I was impressed--little recoil and it handled well.
I would like a little more length, though and figured a 32" semilite barrel would be perfect. (I'm 6'4" and weigh 220 lbs.) Unfortunately, I see the K80 isn't offered with a 32" semilite barrel. Also, since the bore is already .735 little weight could be shaved by backboring.
Do you have any suggestions? Are model 32 barrels lighter?
Re: 30" vs. 32" K80 Alan - 08:56 07/02/2000
Low recoil is one of the characteristics of the K-80 so I am not surprised that you found it compared well with your auto. The standard bore size is 18.6mm which equates to .732", the semilight barrels had a bore size of 19.2mm, .756", you can see where the weight saving came from. It is possible to order a pair of semi-light barrels in 32" with a 19.2mm bore, there is a small extra charge for this specification. In the last year the factory have made a couple of barrel sets to this specification for cusomers of mine. A word of warning though, this bore size does not handle all loads well and you will not find it easy to get screw-in chokes fitted as the bore size is too big for many of the standard chokes and the wall thickness is much reduced. Of course it is possible to specify a smaller bore than 19.2, you could go 18.8, .740" for example. I have to tell you that those of my customers who have insisted on going down the road of overbored barrels have not been happy with the result, they complain of increased recoil and poor patterns with some loads. Inevitably they have moved on to standard 32" fixed choke barrels to which they have then had screw-in chokes fitted. They all tell me that this configuration handles perfectly for them. That is another consideration, the K-80 has a heavy receiver and very light barrels do not balance well on this gun.
K-32 barrels are often lighter but for one reason, the rib is usually 8mm parallel which reduces the weight of the barrels compared to the 12-8mm tapered rib. You can order K-80 barrels with the 8mm rib.
Hope this helps.
Alan
Re: 30" vs. 32" K80 Greg - 01:27 08/02/2000
Low recoil is one of the characteristics of the K-80 so I am not surprised that you found it compared well with your auto. The standard bore size is 18.6mm which equates to .732", the semilight barrels had a bore size of 19.2mm, .756", you can see where the weight saving came from. It is possible to order a pair of semi-light barrels in 32" with a 19.2mm bore, there is a small extra charge for this specification. In the last year the factory have made a couple of barrel sets to this specification for cusomers of mine. A word of warning though, this bore size does not handle all loads well and you will not find it easy to get screw-in chokes fitted as the bore size is too big for many of the standard chokes and the wall thickness is much reduced. Of course it is possible to specify a smaller bore than 19.2, you could go 18.8, .740" for example. I have to tell you that those of my customers who have insisted on going down the road of overbored barrels have not been happy with the result, they complain of increased recoil and poor patterns with some loads. Inevitably they have moved on to standard 32" fixed choke barrels to which they have then had screw-in chokes fitted. They all tell me that this configuration handles perfectly for them. That is another consideration, the K-80 has a heavy receiver and very light barrels do not balance well on this gun.
K-32 barrels are often lighter but for one reason, the rib is usually 8mm parallel which reduces the weight of the barrels compared to the 12-8mm tapered rib. You can order K-80 barrels with the 8mm rib.
Hope this helps.
Alan
Thank you for your prompt reply. I haven't shot a 32" K80 but I have found I like heavier guns. I assume the Briley chokes offered on K80s are matched to the bore size if a person compromised with a .740 bore.
Also, I am going to be in Germany in early March. I am corresponding with Peter Brass about a factory visit. I'm sure I can get further answers at that time.
Thank again.
Re: 30" vs. 32" K80 Alan - 09:08 08/02/2000
The Briley chokes fitted at the Krieghoff factory are Series 2 and only suitable for the standard bore size of .732". As I understand it Briley make a wide range suitable for different bore sizes and I am certain .740" is included but you should check with them directly. Certainly Nigel Teague here in the UK can fit chokes to bore sizes bigger than .740".
Regarding your factory visit, the IWA exhibition is held in Nurnberg, March 10th through March 13th so most of the factory sales team will be attending.
Alan
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