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Ask Alan Archive Page 7
Chokes Leo - 22:11 17/02/2000
Alan, thanks for all the info. I just got my new gun and have been shooting trap with my unsingle barrel and super full (.040) choke tube for 16 and 27 yd. I know you shoot trap, do you prefer the full to the super full choke? What are your thoughts on chokes for trap. I took your advice and bought the choke tubes. I am really happy with the gun. Thanks.
Re: Chokes Alan - 08:32 18/02/2000
Leo,
I am glad that you are happy with the gun and I will bet that the longer you shoot it the more pleased you will be, thats what I find with most of my customers here. The Trap we shoot in the UK is both the same and different to ATA Trap. Our DTL (Down-the-Line) is just about the same as your 16yd singles with identical target settings. The difference is that we are allowed two shots scoring 3 for a first barrel and 2 for a second barrel. Put another way, we loose a point if we need to use the second barrel and loose 3 if we miss altogether. I have shot the Grand and personally prefer your version and I love handicap which we don't shoot here, except that we still have a couple of handicap championships each year. The maximum load we can use is 1oz. The interesting thing is that although we have to use the lighter load our top shooters, John Bellamy, Nigel Chapman and David Ball, are all using the No: 2 tube in the bottom barrel and either the 3 or 4 in the top. I use 2 and 3 myself but if the targets are a hard composition I step up to 3 & 4. I used to use 5 & 5 but find that the No 2 tube really throws the most amazing patterns, very even, and this with only 1oz. For handicap I would use more choke but as we don't shoot it I can only guess and say I would start with 4. I would need to pattern the gun at handicap range to see which threw the best pattern. I understand that in the USA the game is so tough that you cannot afford for a single target to slip through the pattern. It is a little different in the UK as our weather means that perfect scores of 100/300 are shot but not at every shoot. Perhaps it is for this reason that our top shooters use less choke. John Bellamy and Nigel Chapman are at in Arizona right now and I will ask them what tubes they used over there when they get back and post the information here. This is the great thing about choke tubes, you have the possibility to try different combinations until you find the one that works best.
Alan
Krieghoff Suhl Don Cline - 20:28 19/02/2000
I have a 9mm that was handed down to me and was wondering if you could give me any information on it. It has an anchor on it with H and K on either side of it. Under the anchor is says KRIEGHOFF SUHL. The barrle is stamped 1940 and I think the serial number is 11279. It also has a German Eagle with several other stampings next to it. I have two magazines that also have what looks to be the German Eagle and the numbers 655 under it. I also have what looks to be the orginal case for it as well as a tool to take the gun apart. If you could give me any information pertaining to this gun it would be greatly appreciated. I also could you send you a digital picture if you would require it.
Thanks so much,
Don Cline
Re: Krieghoff Suhl Alan - 22:27 19/02/2000
Don, by the sound of it what you have is a gun produced for the military during the war. Krieghoff was originally in Suhl and produced hunting guns, drillings and the like. On the outbreak of war all manufacture of hunting guns was prohibited and gun manufacturing companies had to turn over their production to making guns for military use, Krieghoff was no exception. At the end of the war that part of Germany was overrun by the Russian forces and the Krieghoff factory was stripped of all machinery and then blown up. The Krieghoff family were evacuated by American troops and resettled in the West were they eventually re-started the production of hunting guns. Unfortunately, due to the destruction of the Suhl factory, no records from that time remain and the serial number of your gun cannot be traced. I would hold onto it though as it is certainly a nice piece of history to have in your collection. Thanks for your offer of a picture, I would be very interested to see that.
Alan
old Krieghoff drilling in good condition Jeff - 04:40 27/02/2000
I have an old Neptun Krieghoff drilling. It is a 16 gauge double, with a 7 x 57 mauser under. There is nice engraving on the metal and storage in the stock for the rifle rounds. The serial number is 3xxx, and it is in very good condition. It was my grandfather's. The story is that it came back after WWII from Germany.
I have asked a number of local gun dealers and even sent a message to the American Krieghoff page. Nobody can tell me anything about this gun. From my net surfing I have figured out it is of some value, but no-one can tell me when it was manufactured or what it is worth... Can you or anyone else reading this posting help me out? I want to insure it properly!!
Re: old Krieghoff drilling in good condition Alan - 09:00 27/02/2000
Jeff,
Fist of all it is not possible to value any gun unseen, it is only possible to say what the same gun in perfect condition might be worth. Your Drilling was manufactured pre-war and is almost certainly much different from the Neptun Drilling manufactured today. There will have been many design and material changes for example. To add to the problem of valuation you need to understand that the Krieghoff factory in Suhl was destroyed at the end of the war and all records lost. I think you are probably getting the picture; the only way of getting a valuation for your gun is to take or send it to a specialist in these sort of guns and get him to provide an estimation of value based on condition and it's original grade (wood, engraving etc.) One of the auction house may be able to help if you cannot find a gun dealer with specific knowledge on this type of gun.
If you look back on this page you will see how many enquiries I have had on the age/value/history of Krieghoff made Drillings, I understand that Krieghoff International and the factory in Ulm get many more than this. The simple fact is that as there are no surviving records it is not possible to provide any information on pre-war guns. Sorry I can't help.
Alan
sidelock Kreighoff I W Delaney - 15:15 03/03/2000
Dear Alan: I have come into possession of a 12 ga. Kreighoff O/U with detachable sidelocks and an extra unsingle trap barrel. In the K catalogue, I can find no reference to such a shotgun, but it sounds similar to the Ulm model O/U rifle. That rifle offers extra 12 ga. barrels as an option. The action is a top cross bolt, with double underlugs - it certainly looks strong enough to handle large bore rifles. The trick is that it points and balances better that my K-80, is approx. 6 oz. lighter with a 29 3/8 inch barrel as opposed to the 30 inch on my K-80. It's a real clay breaker! Can you tell me what I have? thanks
Sidelock Alan - 22:16 03/03/2000
If you let me have the serial number I can tell you exactly what the gun is and when it was made. If you do not want to quote the number here you can send it to me privately by email to alan@krieghoff.co.uk. Without the serial number I would only be guessing.
Alan
K80 questions Matt Miranda - 15:27 02/04/2000
I have a couple of questions about my K80 if I may. First is an annual service required or recommended? And what does an annual service do? Also I purchased aftermarket choke tubes for my gun, does this affect my warranty? and finally I purchased a "European" version of the K80, it is a sporting model with 30" barells, do you know which front hanger would probably be supplied with the gun or how would I tell, and what would my point of impact be with that hanger? Thankyou for your time.
Sincerely
Matt Miranda
Re: K80 questions Alan - 14:30 03/04/2000
Annual service is always a good idea as it means that any potential problems are spotted and rectified. The work that we carry out depends very much on the age and condition of the gun and when we last saw it. In simplest form it may be nothing more than a thorough inspection and test but if any problems are identified it may mean a complete strip and clean with all springs replaced. We never carry out work uneccessarily but we never skimp on the service either. With guns that we see regularily we have quite a service history and consequently know the type of service most likely. I would say if your gun is 2 or 3 years old and has not been serviced in that time we would strip and clean it replacing springs etc as required. With regard to the question of warranty it depends on where you are resident. In the UK the use of aftermarket chokes does not affect the general warranty that Krieghoff Service offer but we cannot extend the warranty to cover choke tubes that we have not made or supplied. the bottom line here is that if you use an aftermarket choke and shoot it out of the barrel causing damage your claim will have to be with the choke maker not us as we have no control over the material or dimensions of tubes we did not supply. As a point of interest we, Krieghoff Service, only offer warranty and service on guns imported into the UK via ourselves or previous factory authorised dealers. I do not know what you mean by a "European" version of the K-80 so cannot comment on that. the front hanger should have a number stamped on the front and would certainly have had that when it left the factory. The point of impact will depend on what the number is but normally it would have left the factory with both barrels shooting to the same place unless something different was specified.
Alan
Signature LW Matt Miranda - 15:31 02/04/2000
One more question please, is the Signature LW just a lighter verson of the K80? and how does it compare in price?
Thanks again
Matt Miranda
Re: Signature LW Alan - 14:34 03/04/2000
The Signature Sporter is a gun especially commisiioned for the UK market and is only sold here. It is essentially a K-80 but does have some differences. The gun is supplied in a different package than the K-80, for example lower grade but strong wood and without the aluminium case etc. consequently the retail price is less.
Alan
Swap of my new weekend case. Glen Unwin - 18:37 04/04/2000
As you may be aware that I took delivery of my new Krieghoff in December last year,Which came with a weekend case,Which has never been used.
Would it be possible to part Ex it for alloy case at a price to suit.
Plus my wife orderd a new gun slip on this Monday just gone,
and I could do with this soon as poss..
Thank you for your time.
Re: Swap of my new weekend case. Alan - 22:21 04/04/2000
No problem at all, I will call you and we can sort out the details. The "Weekend" case is proving very popular and we are struggling to get enough made to satisy our needs so I will be happy to take yours back against an Americase. With regard to your cover, we will have a small delivery of those this week and will send one out to you the same day. One point to bear in mind is that the cover is designed to match the "Weekend" case (same colour fabric and leather). I will call you as soon as the covers come in.
Alan.
forcing cones and chamber length Ian Delaney - 22:38 17/04/2000
Alan: I recently acquired a K-80 sporting and a K-20 sporting and field. The chamber length for both guns is 3 inches allowing the use of magnum shells if one wanted. Question: when shooting 2 3/4 inch cartridges in a gun chambered for 3 inch cartridges isn't it the effect the same as having a lengthened forcing cone? Is this K's intended effect and if so, why are not all K's chambered for the longer cartridge?
Re: forcing cones and chamber length Alan - 13:57 18/04/2000
Ian, All K-80 sporting models have the 3" chambers, it is only the K-80 Trap model that has 2.3/4". The K-20 is made in only the one specification so far and that is with 3" chambers. If you take a look at the forcing cones you will see that they are very long and this is true what ever the chamber length. There is no particular reason for the 3" chambers other than they have many advantages and no disadvantages. Certainly the longer chamber has no effect adverse effect on pattern when using 2.3/4" shells and I am using 3" chambers on my Trap model K-80. Testing at the factory discovered that the 3" chambers performed extremely well and at the same time allowed for a little "future proofing" in case we are ever forced to use a subsititute for lead in our Clay loads. As you will probably be aware the lighter lead substitutes take up more volume in the case and getting a full load in a 2.3/4" case becomes a bit of a cram. So why do K-80 Trap guns still have 2.3/4" chambers, ask the very conservative Trapshooters. I can't speak for the USA but here in the UK our Trap boys still like their shorter chambers, mainly in the belief that it gives them some sort of pattern edge. I have patterned literally hundreds of K guns with both chamber lengths and I can tell you that there is no difference that I can see at all.
Alan
gun t.k. - 18:07 24/04/2000
Hi Alan
what type of gun makers do you think are best
Re: gun Alan - 07:45 25/04/2000
That is too general a question for me to be able to answer. To even begin I would need to know for what purpose. Do you mean Shotgun, Rifle, Drilling etc etc and then we could go into the action type and the sort of shooting you are doing - Clay Target, Game, etc. Of course my personal opinion is that the K-80 is the finest gun made for Clay Target shooting which is why I shoot one myself. This isn't simply because I like to recommend what I sell however, as I was a Krieghoff shooter long before I was involved in the marketing here in the UK. My reason for shooting one now is the same as it was back then - responsive predictable handling, high quality and design meaning the gun is reliable, low recoil. Some things never change. As a general gunsmith I get to work on just about every make of shotgun used here and I have never seen a gun as well made and therefore as reliable as the K-80.
Best I can do.
Alan
information please gordon allan - 15:16 29/04/2000
I am interested in procuring a 470 double , and have been advised to make contact with you, since you are making a new version 0f this rifle. any info you can pass alonf to me would be appreciated.
Stay Well
Gordon Allan
Re: information please Alan - 22:23 29/04/2000
I have replied to your query separately by email and passed your request on to Krieghoff International. I handle Krieghoff in the UK and do not have pricing or other information for the American market.
Alan
high priced Mark - 04:12 05/05/2000
Alan, I am a new shooter(6 mos.) I purchased a new Beretta 682 gold combo and shoot it quite well. The problem is the stock is so wide that it well never fit me correctly unless I have it carved up considerably. I hate to do that. I have considered buying a Krieghoff combo but they seem obscenely expensive. (Not unlike other highline guns.) It seems to me that for a couple of thousand extra dollars, you should be able to build a gun considerably nicer and better made than a Beretta. But the fact is they are more like $10,000 higher. I remain to be convinced that they are worth that much more money. I suspect highline shotguns are a little like Harley Davidson motorcycles. They are kept in short supply to keep the price up. Would you please comment specifically on why these and other shotguns are so expensive. I've seen high dollar guns with ghastly wood. I mean how much can a piece of walnut cost? Please also comment on steel etc. and possibly compare them to other specific guns. Convince me please!!!!!!!!!1
Re: high priced Alan - 21:39 05/05/2000
Hi Mark,
I can see where you are coming from but gun manufacturing doesn't work like that. You see guns produced for the mass market are produced to a particular specification in order to keep the price down, the minute you try to incorporate custom features, i.e different comb profile, the cost savings are no longer possible. This is where high end makers such as Krieghoff come in. We can make even a standard gun as individual as you like, there will be an extra cost but it is still possible because of the hand finishing needed for each gun. When a K-80 is put together it is not just one of a whole batch of guns, each gun is an individual and has it's own specification sheet that accompanies the gun right the way through the factory, even down to the test firing stage. This means that a customers individual wishes can, and are, incorporated into each gun.
Keeping supply short to boost the price sounds good in theory but the fact is that our dealers have placed more orders than the factory can actually make in this year. Right now the K-80 department is working the maximum hours allowed in order to try and meet as many of our orders as possible. Even so I am expecting that I will have a shortfall with some guns being carried over into next year. The reason a K-80 is the price it is is simple - the gun is made without any real regard to the end cost. The factory use the material best suited to it's purpose and the cost is whatever it has to be. If a certain grade of steel is needed for the hammer that is what they use. It could be made cheaper but at some compromise in strength or wear and they simply do not consider it. The factory actually do invest a huge amount of money in new machinery so that the parts can be made to a closer tolerance and there is another new CNC machine going in this year. These machines allow parts to be made to closer tolerance but they do not necessarily speed up the process as no matter how high the parts are stacked at the top of the K-80 department the completed gun will only come out the bottom when the technicians who assemble it are finished. You cannot step out into the street and grab anyone off the street and put them to work building a K-80, these guys are highly skilled and have spent a number of years learning their trade. If someone is off sick he cannot be replaced and so the department is a man down until he returns. That is the way it is.
Walnut is becoming increasingly scarce all around the world. Each tree will only yield a small number of highly figured blanks suitable for a gun stock and the demand exceeds the supply. Wood is my single biggest problem as it is very hard to find nice pieces and we always need more of these than we can ever get hold of. The price of high grade wood is very high and getting worse every year. I have one or two stunning pieces of wood in inventory and to tell you the truth I don't really want to let them go unless it is for something special as I cannot replace them at a reasonable cost. This is one situation that will definitely get worse and I can see synthetic stocks on standard grade guns as a real possibility in the future.
To sum up, the K-80 is priced as it is because that is what it costs to make it. After my first visit to the factory when I spent a few days in the K-80 department, the only question I had was how can they make it for the price they do? It really should cost more.
Alan
Precision fit stock on K80 Keith - 20:24 05/05/2000
So far so good,butwhich is cast on and which is cast off?Right handed shooter ,shot goes left ocentre on pattern plate,never mind on or off I am a simpleton,towards face or away from it to centre the pattern? Effective certainly but you take some stick from the "lovely piece of wood" brigade
Re: Precision fit stock on K80 Alan - 21:05 05/05/2000
Hi Keith, Glad to hear that you are finding the stock effective. Cast-on is when the comb is set over to the right, cast-on is when the comb is set over to the left. If your shot is going to the left of centre then you need more cast-off, that is you need to push the comb more to the right, away from your face. This will allow you to get your eye centrally behind the rib. My guess is that at the moment your eye is positioned alogside the left side of the rib. There is no hard and fast rule for this however as we all shoot differently. If you set up the comb so that your eye is right down the centre of the rib you should be in good shape. The best way to do this is with the aid of an instructor or gunfitter as it is very difficult to get right yourself. You should also know that there is a relationship between comb height and cast. Ususally you will find that increasing the cast means that you also need to raise the comb, this then partially negates the effect of the cast. Put simply, you need to alter these two together and you will find it easier if you have someone to assist you.
You are right about the appearance although I have mine painted now and it looks quite good. There is a picture of mine on this site on the Precision Fit page. Let me know if you need any more information.
Alan
Pistol Grip Tape Leo - 18:48 06/06/2000
Alan, I've notice here in the US that several All Americans use black adhesive tape wrapped around the pistol grip on their K80s. Do you see this anywhere? What do you think they are trying to accomplish? I have also noted that when I have a tight right or left, that I cant my K80. Do you think the tape would help this (more friction on stock)?
Re: Pistol Grip Tape Alan - 20:38 06/06/2000
Leo,
I have no idea what they are trying to accomplish. This is something we never see in the UK except perhaps when a shooter is trying to bulk a grip out becasue he has big hands. I would have thought that ordinary adhesive tape would get sticky with use which makes me think that what you have seen is the racket tape that Tennis players wrap their racket grips with. If this is the case it may be to provide a better grip in hot weather.
Taping the grip will not affect your tendency to cant the gun on right or left targets. That is a fault in technique and needs to be ironed out with the help of a coach.
Alan
Shot Size Leo - 16:28 15/06/2000
Alan, it appears my K80 shoots better with No. 8 shot than with No. 71/2 (both singles and handicap). What do most shooters use there in their K80s? Have you noticed any preference for shot in the K80s?
I really appreciate the advice - hope that I'm not getting to be a bother.
Re: Shot Size Alan - 11:49 16/06/2000
Hi Leo,
You are never a bother and I am always pleased to answer any questions you may have. With regard to the question of shot size there are some differences between UK and USA shot size designations. As a rule of thumb you can take it that your 8 equals our 7½ and your 7½ is equal to our 7. Here in the UK the most popular shot size for Trap is 7½, your 8, although some shooters do prefer the bigger pellet, especially on windy days or when shooting hard targets. Every gun will paettern differently with different shot sizes and the only way to determine which works best out of your gun is to set to and do some serious pattern testing. Simplest way is to set up a big sheet of paper at the distance you want to look at the pattern and take a shot at it. Next draw a 30" circle to enclose as many pellets as possible. Look at how even the pattern is and if you have any gaps where a target could slip through. If you want to do the job thoroughly you should count the strikes inside the circle and compare that with the total in the cartridge. I need to tell you that you should not test through a clean barrel and that one shot is not enough. For really accurate results you need to shoot around 10 shots with each shot size and compare the results. A time consuming job but you can get a good idea with less. It all depends on how much work you want to do. Hope this helps.
Alan
K-80 BARRELS PETE MANCINO - 02:05 24/06/2000
I OWN TWO K32'S. I HAVE AN OPPURTUNITY TO PURCHASE SOME K80 BARRELS AT A REASONABLE PRICE. CAN YOU TELL ME IF THE K80 BARRELS WILL FIT ON MY K32'S? THANKS , PETE
re K-80 barrels Alan - 12:31 26/06/2000
Hi Pete, Sorry for the delay in reply - I have been out of town over the weekend. K-80 barrels will fit a Model 32 but may need some minor modification to the extractors. It depends on how new the K-80 barrels are. The latest have extractors held in place with a detent ball and this is the type that may need a little alteration. Earlier K-80s with the extractors secured with a screw are pretty much the same as K-32 barrels. I should say that Krieghoff barrels are not strictly speaking interchangeable from gun to gun without fitting and you should always get the fit checked. Just because they go on the receiver it doesn't mean that they fit.
Alan
browning medalist mark tansell - 11:26 27/06/2000
can anyone please tell me the service pressure (in bars)of my 12 gauge browning medalist please as no one seems to know
Re: browning medalist Alan - 20:49 28/06/2000
Hi Mark,
The proof marks will be marked on the barrels. If you remove the forearm and tell me what numbers you find stamped there I can tell you what the service pressure is. I could make a guess knowing the gun but I would prefer you tell me what is marked, that way we don't make mistakes.
Alan
Recoil reducer Leo - 19:59 30/06/2000
Alan, I like a little bit of weight in my buttstock. I am going to put a mercury recoil reducer in the stock. What is the best way to do it so that it doesn't rattle and move around? Any problems in doing this?
Re: Recoil reducer Alan - 23:57 02/07/2000
Hi Leo, there is no problem in fitting a reducer other than either finding one slim enough to fit in the stock bolt hole or drilling a new hole to accept a larger diameter device. Either way you need to wrap the reducer with tape until it is a snug but not over-tight sliding fit in the hole. I use masking tape as it is thin and easy to get a perfect fit with. Remember that you may want to remove the reducer one day, especially if it is in the stock bolt hole. Some reducers have a threaded hole in one end so that you can screw in a bolt to use to pull the reducer out with. If the one you choose does not have this feature you need to make some provision for getting it out in the future. Once you have the unit fitted you need to stop it sliding to and fro with recoil and hitting the underside of the pad. Simplest solution for this is a small length of rubber hose slit longways so that it will fit in the hole. Trim off flush with the end of the stock and replace the pad. Job done.
Alan
K80 blown coke tube Raymond S Shenk - 01:25 02/07/2000
I ruined the barrel on my K80 when a choke tube blew
out. There is a small buldge and crack about an inch from the muzzle. can anything be done to reclain this barrel.
Thanks
Raymond S Shenk
Re: K80 blown coke tube Alan - 23:49 02/07/2000
Sorry to hear about your misfortune, this can happen if a tube gets damaged or bent, even a tiny flat on one side can do it. It may be possible to salvage the barrel but I really couldn't say without taking a look. The bulge could probably be put down but the crack doesn't sound too promising. You don't say where you live; if it is the UK call me and we can discuss the problem. If you live in the USA call Krieghoff International and ask to speak to a gunsmith, he will be able to advise you. Here in the UK your gun insurance would cover an accident of this nature and cover the cost of new barrels if required. It might be worth checking your policy.
Alan
Receiver finish Don Yost - 08:07 03/07/2000
Alan:
Can you tell me how the Kreighoff receiver's "case color finish" is created? Is it more or less durable than the "coin finish"? Does it require any special treatment or upkeep other than a clean, light oil wipe down.
Thank you,
Donald Yost
Re: Receiver finish Alan - 12:20 03/07/2000
The case color finish is done in the traditional way and the color is a by-product of the hardening treatment. It is exactly the same method used on best English side-by-sides. Color hardening is the same as case hardening wherby the receiver is buried in the various materials used, bone dust being one, and brought up to the required heat. The case hardening materials are absorbed into the surface of the metal via the open grain structure. When the receiver cools the absorbed material is compressed and forms a hard skin. The color is incidental to the process. The exact materials used and the temperatures etc will vary from hardener to hardener and the recipies are often kept as jealously guarded "trade secrets", one of the sillier traditions of gunmaking and the reason why progress is sometimes very slow. As far as the K-80 receiver is concerned the receiver has to be hardened prior to color hardening as the traditional method does not produce a tough enough receiver. After hardening in the factory the receiver is sent for a second color hardening and the end result is satisfactory. Color hardening is not durable at all and will wear off in a very short time unless some method is used to protect the finish. This has no effect on the hardness at all but it will loose its color. The end result will be the sort of finish seen on older English guns and is often referred to as "brushed silver". The method most often used to stop the color wearing off is a thin layer of lacquer which needs to be renewed every year. Rust protective properties are reasonable but a color hardened receiver will definitely rust if not protected. It is probably much the same rust wise as coin. The new factory Nitride finish has a similar appearance to coin but is much more rust resistant.
Alan
Gold Super Scroll Finish Ron Hill - 02:06 05/07/2000
How can I keep the finish of my Gold Super Scroll bright and clean? The receiver has turn dark gray and dull.
I assume this change of color is from
the contact of the medal with my hands.
Any suggestions? Thanks!
Re: Gold Super Scroll Finish Alan - 08:58 05/07/2000
Your gold super Scroll will have the coin finish and this finish will stain with handling unless it is protected by wiping over after every use. First of all I should explain that the standard K-80 finish is nickel which is just about bomb proof. This finish does not mark easily and is extremely rust resistant. Nickel finishes cannot be used where there are any gold inlays however, as the nickel would simply cover the gold. Where you have a receiver with gold inlay you have two choices, coin or black. Black gives a little more protection than coin but will wear through with handling eventually and the receiver will need re-blacking. Coin offers less rust protection but will in time build up a patina over the surface which both looks attractive and offers good protection. A coin finish receiver properly looked after will never need re-finishing but maintenance is always going to be high. My own receiver is coin and all I do after every use is wipe it over with one of the oil impregnated wipes you can get now. Apart from a fingerprint stain on the inside of the guard which I got the first week I had the gun, my receiver looks very good. The finish has darkened a little but I prefer that as it shows the detail better. If your receiver has become dark and duill it sounds as if you have some bad staining and the only remedy is to return it to Krieghoff to be re-finished. This is not a big deal and you can get the gun fully serviced whilst it is being done, it will come back like a new gun. Once you have the new finish just wipe it over carefully every time you handle it and all will be well.
Alan
dupont/Kguns Rusty Wafer - 23:51 10/07/2000
Do you know of Mike young at Kguns. He is said to be a factory smith>>>>>
Re: dupont/Kguns Alan - 08:08 11/07/2000
Sorry but I can't help on this one. I am based in the UK and I do not know anything much about Hal du Pont's operation other than he does employ fully trained gunsmiths. I suggest you mail Krieghoff International (info@krieghoff.com) with the same query. I am sure they will know.
Regards,
Alan
Point of Impact Adjustment Leo - 19:12 13/07/2000
Alan, I got into an interesting conversation last night in regard to point of impact adjustment. A fellow wanted to know how I changed POI adjustment on my K80 unsingle barrel. I told him I raised or lower the rib or adjusted the comb. He said if the gun shoots to where you are looking, an adjustment to the rib shouldn't make any difference. He thought the only way you could adjust would be by the comb. Any comments? Also, does the adjustment on the unsingle rib slightly bend the rib? I don't see how it can pivot. Thanks
Re: Point of Impact Adjustment Alan - 08:27 14/07/2000
Hi Leo,
Your are right, this is an interesting discussion. The way the point of impact is changed on a K-80, o/u or unsigle is by physically moving the barrel. When you adjust your rib or change the front hanger, what you are doing is bending the barrel away from or towards the rib - the rib stays exactly where it is. This is why you sight picture remains the same. Although bending the barrel sounds a little strange it is not as we are talking about a tiny curve over the length of the barrel and in any event barrels are routinely "bent" during manufacture to ensure that they shoot straight. Changing the comb height is altering your line of sight not the point of impact. Point of impact is where your barrel shoots in relation to the rib - line of sight is where it shoots in relation to where you are looking. On the K-80, as we are actually moving the barrel you can see that it does actually alter the point of impact in relation to the rib and also to the line of sight. Hope this is clear but come back if it is not.
Alan
Re: Point of Impact Adjustment Leo - 15:18 14/07/2000
Alan - thanks for reply. Presently, when I shoot handicap, I increase the height of my comb to compensate for the higher target. Do you think it would be better to change the POI of the barrel rather than raise the comb?
Re: Point of Impact Adjustment Alan - 16:08 14/07/2000
Leo,
My personal opinion would be that it is better to keep the sight picture that you are used to and raise the point of impact as required. This way you see exactly the same sight picture whatever your game and this helps develop consistency. There is a counter arguement that says that a higher comb allows for a slightly better view over the rib and therefore quicker target acquisition follows. I also agree with this but would say if this is the case it is good to have the higher comb height and better vision at all distances - not just handicap. My recommendation would be to set up your comb to a height that you are comfortable with at all distances and adjust your point of impact as you need it.
Alan
Point of impact adjustment Cathryn - 08:13 26/07/2000
Does a changing the barrel hanger to modify the point of impact of the bottom barrel require an adjustment to the bracing flange (name?) at the barrel mid point. Can minor adjustments be made with this flange without changing the barrel hanger?
Re: Point of impact adjustment Alan - 22:38 26/07/2000
Hi Cathryn, you have made a good point that most shooters do not consider. I call the bracket at the mid-point the centre hanger and it does have an effect on point of impact. If you look cloely you will see that there are fine grooves along the edge of the block attached to the barrel. If you slacken the screw and then gently squeeze the barrels together at mid-point, holding them in that position whilst you re-tighten the screw, you will lower the point of impact of the bottom barrel. Conversley, spreading the barrel gently will raise the impact of the bottom barrel. If you think about this you will understand that squeezing the barrels together puts an upward curve in the bottom barrel, this depresses slightly the muzzle end. the top barrel does not bend as it has the rib acting as a strengthening brace on its top side. Spreading the barrels puts an upward curve in the bottom barrel thus raising the muzzle a little.
As to the question of slackening the screw whilst changing the front hanger it will make a difference although there is no real need to do this. Logically, leaving the screw tight will cause the bottom barrel to bend over a shorter distance - centre to muzzle - consequently a change of hanger size will theoretically have a greater effect than if the bend was spread over the whole barrel length. Personally I like to slacken the screw before changing the hanger as I prefer the bend in the barrel to be a more gradual curve from breech to muzzle. Something in my mind regarding stress etc. There is however no need to do this, or so I am advised. Just call me quirky.
Alan
speed wrench for K chokes Ian Delaney - 03:20 31/07/2000
Alan: Are you aware of a speed wrench for the K chokes? 12, 20, 28 gauge? The standard wrench supplied with the factory chokes is very slow when you are trying to change chokes at a station. Any products? thx.
Re: speed wrench for K chokes Alan - 22:09 31/07/2000
I am not aware of any speed wrench made specifically for the K-80 chokes although I would imagine that many of the "universal" types on the market would work fine. Problem with the K-80 choke is the external splines which precludes the use of any wrench that needs to rotate through 360 degrees. the type of wrench that fits internally and either relies on a taper fit or an expandable rubber bushing would work fine.
Alan
Re: speed wrench for K chokes Rich McKinley - 05:05 02/08/2000
I am not aware of any speed wrench made specifically for the K-80 chokes although I would imagine that many of the "universal" types on the market would work fine. Problem with the K-80 choke is the external splines which precludes the use of any wrench that needs to rotate through 360 degrees. the type of wrench that fits internally and either relies on a taper fit or an expandable rubber bushing would work fine.
Alan
Alan: I purchased a Royal wrench for my K-80.
It is specifically made to fit the external splines
on the K-80. It is a very high quality product
available through shotgunreport.com. I would
encourage anyone looking for a fast wrench specifically
made for a K-80 to look into it. I sure like mine.
Enjoy your site and the useful information as well
as your articles in Clay Shooting magazine published
in England. It is one of the finer publications on
shotgunning and your contributions are excellent.
I would encourage anyone interested in shotgunning
to try a subscription to Clay Shooting. Thank you
again for your site and your expertise on K-80's.
Rich McKinley, Alaska
Re: speed wrench for K chokes Alan - 09:05 02/08/2000
Thanks Rich,
I will definitely check out the Royal wrench. I do not think anyone imports it into the UK at this time but I will see what I can track down.
Glad you find my column and this forum useful.
Alan
Barrel Cleaning Leo - 14:54 03/08/2000
What products and methods do you recommend when cleaning barrels? Have you ever made your own barrel cleaning solution? If so, would you share your formula? Thanks
Re: Barrel Cleaning Alan - 18:18 04/08/2000
Hi Leo,
I use a product available here in the UK called 009. It is available in either a bottle or aerosol, I prefer the aerosol. The product is very similar to your Hppes No 9, smells exactly the same to me. What I like about this product is the way it removes all plastic from the bore. I just spray it down each bore and leave the gun standing muzzle down overnight. Next morning all the plastic residue has lifted clean off the bore walls and only needs wiping through and a bit of a scrub to remove any stubborn streaks. It also removes baked on powder deposits from the chamber and if used frequently seems to prevent all deposits from sticking. I am sure there are many other good products but it is a case of sticking with one I like and that works for me. A word of warning, some of these solvents, 009 amongst them, can remove nickel so keep it off the receiver if yours is nickeled. It is also a good idea to wear gloves as solvents in contact with the skin can be dangerous - always read the instructions. I have never tried to make my own bore cleaner because I do not have either the chemical knowledge or the facilities to do so, plus I prefer to simply pick up a can from my local gun dealer, it is a lot easier.
Alan
Re: Barrel Cleaning j. hardwicke - 18:38 21/08/2000
What products and methods do you recommend when cleaning barrels? Have you ever made your own barrel cleaning solution? If so, would you share your formula? Thanks napier also make a good cleaner available anywhere.
Re: Barrel Cleaning justin - 18:42 21/08/2000
napier also make a very good aerosol cleaner, available at most shops.
Krieghoff Sidelock rifle/shotgun combo. William Johnson - 02:43 07/08/2000
Alan
I recently came across a pre-war Krieghoff sidelock in verk nice condition 16x6.5x57R - Deep relief engraving of European Elk and stock carving on the front stock and some on the butt stock around the receiver. The stock has very attractive shining finish but much more shine than the standard german oil finish that you see on most Krieghoffs. Could this be original and if not will it reduce the value of the gun by much.
thanks
William
Re: Krieghoff Sidelock rifle/shotgun combo. Alan - 23:21 08/08/2000
Impossible to say about the finish on any pre-war Krieghoff as the factory have no records. Everything was destroyed at the end of the war. It was common in some areas to finish stocks with Shellac, a sort of French Polish, and this may be what yours has now. I cannot say if it is original.
Alan
Krieghoff Quality william Johnson - 12:28 07/08/2000
Alan:
Are there any books available that show older kreighoff guns? I saw a reference to a Kreighoff book on a gun ad but I can't find it again.
In your opinion how does the quality compare between Krieghoff, Merkel, Heym and Sodia.
hope that you can help
William
Re: Krieghoff Quality Alan - 23:25 08/08/2000
I have heard of a book giving some history on Krieghoff guns but have never managed to track it down. I would be very interested if anyone has such a book or comes across one.
With regard to which gun is the best quality I am not going to answer that becasue I am biased. What I will say is that I a know Krieghoff always make all their guns to the highest quality, using the best materials available at the time and without any regard to end cost. In my mind that speaks for itself but you can judge.
Alan
Suhl drilling Loyd Huval - 14:03 07/08/2000
Hello Alan,
I have a Suhl drilling. 16 ga. sideX side, with a 8.3X72R rifle barrel underneath. The serial number on the receiver is 2459. The receiver was nickel plated. but some has worn off. There is a trap door in the stock which has five rifle shells in it. There is a fold down sight on the rib for the rifle. The break mechanism is located under the trigger guard. There are three pins located on top of the receiver, indicating which of the barrels has been fired. the safety is located on the left side of the stock. The barrel selector is where the safety would be found on a modern shotgun. Stamped on the barrel is "Berns-Waffen-Werke". On the left barrel "Suhl" is stamped. The gun is a box-lock with automatic ejectors. Any info you can provide would be greatly appreciated.
Loyd Huval
Re: Suhl drilling Alan - 23:13 08/08/2000
There is a Museum specialising in the guns made around the Suhl area and I recommend that you make an enquiry there. Contact details as follow:
The Museum of Firearms - Suhl.
Waffenmuseum Suhl
Friedrich-König-Straß 19
D-98527 Suhl
Tel: 03681 7206 98
Fax: 03681 7213 08
To call drop the zero in front of the three and dial your international access code plus the
country code, 49 for Germany.
The Gunmakers of Suhl have their own website at www.gunmakers.org/ It is in English and has a forum for you to post questions.
Hope you find some information.
Alan
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