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Trap Special Forum
Welcome to the K-80 Trap Special Forum. Elsewhere on this site, I have published a journal, which is simply an account of my experience in setting up and shooting the Trap Special. I am sure that there are many questions left unanswered and equally sure that more explanation is needed on some points that I have barely mentioned. You can ask those questions here and add your comments on shooting the Trap Special.
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| setting a trap special for ot | JamesMcKeown (jim) - 2007-10-24 21:17:09 | | how would you go about setting up a trap special to shoot olympic trap eg what hanger should you use and how do you know where to set the top barrel in relation to the bottom |
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| Re: setting a trap special for ot | Unregistered user (Alan Rhone) - 2007-10-26 16:55:29 | | You set the gun up for OT the same as any other discipline, there is no difference. You need to decide where you want the gun to shoot and set it up as per the instructions. Ideally this would be with the help of a coach. |
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| Thanks and an update | RobinD (Robin Dand) - 2007-06-05 21:34:40 | Dear Alan,
A swift note of thanks to you and your staff for looking after me when I came by early this morning before everyone had had a chance for a cup of coffee. I know how disrupting it can be, so please pass on my thanks to all for making me feel so welcome.
I thought you may be interested to hear how things worked with the Trap Special after I left you today, hence the second part of this message. Leaving the rib setting on "neutral' and with a number 5 hanger for the lower barrel, I had an opportunity to shoot it on some pattern plates. Interestingly the set-up put the centre of the pattern about 9 to 12 inches above the mark on the plate. Certainly a higher point of impact than that thrown by a Mark 38. This test was repeated for each barrel 6 times, so it was consistent. (As an aside, the pattern also appeared to be consistently slightly to the left of the mark but that is another matter). Both bottom and top barrel seemed to have similar points of impact. I also tried the different chokes and settled for full for the lower barrel, tested at 35 yards and extra full for the top barrel at tested at 40 yards. This was using 24-gram Hull Sovereign no.7s which through those barrels gave very good patterns. Although that was of interest the proof of the pudding lay in breaking some clays, so once I had finished with the pattern plates I went to Bisley to shoot some Olympic Trap. Bearing in mind that I had now driven over 400 miles in the day I then shot 100 targets on my own (I find it harder work to shoot a line without company, but there it is) which means I shall sleep well tonight! The first 50 were not representative of me or fair on the gun as we are still getting to know each other, but by the end of the 2nd round I was more content with myself and the gun. The second 50 was more interesting as I shot 21 and 23. The misses were certainly down to pilot error, (mostly my losing concentration and, I think, moving before seeing the target). Conditions were good but quite windy and included one or two excellent second barrel breaks.
My impression was that the set-up is nearly right and if anything the point of impact is a shade too high, however it is too soon to change anything and will attempt to try the set-up again tomorrow evening on some more Olympic Trap targets.
Once again many thanks for today. And now I'm off to bed!
Kind regards
Robin |
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| Re: Thanks and an update | Alan (Alan Rhone) - 2007-06-06 08:57:19 | | You are always welcome and it was good to see you again. I am not surprised to hear the results of your pattern testing because I had forgotten to mention the effect of the higher comb on a pattern test. When I shoot a gun for pattern I always lower the comb so that I can make both beads touch each other in a Classic figure eight without having to force my head down. I do this because shooting at a pattern sheet is very artificial and visibility over the rib is not important. What is very important is being able to align both beads together to form a consistent repeatable sight picture. If the comb is too high there is a gap between the beads and it becomes more difficult to aim the gun like a rifle. Secondly, because we are trying to place an accurate shot we pay too much attention to the front sight and consequently place this on the target as a sight. Because the front sight has now been lifted into the line of sight between eye and aiming point the gun will shoot high, just as it would if you raised the back sight on a rifle. None of this applies when shooting at a moving target because you then look out over the rib and not along it. The rib and sights are then below the line of sight and roughly parallel to it. Consequently there is no sight raising effect from the high comb. I hope that I have explained this in a way you can follow but if not I will be happy to talk it through with you. The bottom line is that a high sight line over the rib has no effect when shooting targets (unless you look at the sight ad aim with it) but does when shooting a pattern sheet (because you are aiming). I suspect that this may also have something to do with your observation of a suspected shooting to one side. All barrels are pattern tested at the Krieghoff factory and it would be very unlikely for one to slip through that was not straight. I would be happy to check that for you whenever convenient and if the barrel is at fault we will of course replace it. |
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| K-80 Trap Special | JMB (John Bellamy) - 2007-05-21 11:56:31 | Dear Alan
As you are aware, from the first time I tried the K-80 Trap Special I was convinced there were many benefits of using this gun in any trap discipline.
The speed and clarity with which you see the target are almost unbelievable.
I have always maintained that if you don't see the target clearly it is harder to break it.
I have no hesitation in recommending that anyone who is looking to change their shotgun should try the K-80 Trap Special.
The difference is awesome! |
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| K80 TRAP SPECIAL | CHAP300 (Paul Chaplow) - 2007-04-25 22:30:44 | Hi Alan
I have just returned back from a shooting trip in America and I have noticed you have added a new k80 super trap forum to your website,and I felt as though I had to post an article on it.
As you know I took delivery of a k80 trap special last year,and I started to shoot it in early january.
The first job was to get the gun shooting where I look. So I replaced the 5# hanger with a 4# hanger and gave the rib adjuster a tweak to get my desired sight picture. The first thing I noticed on shooting the new gun was the extra visibility around the barrel and secondly the reduced recoil. After firing at few hundred targets I realised that the top barrel was firing too high so I then altered the rib to lower the point of impact of the top barrel.
In the next few weeks I posted some very good scores ie dtl 299's 298's, single barrel 99, and double rise 98. But after a while my scores started to dwindle and I lost a little confidence, and people were telling me not to fix what wasnt broken and to go back to my flat rib k80, as I still had a couple of weeks left to shoot before I went to America.
On arriving in America I was taken aback by the amount of k80 trap specials at the shooting ground. So I went to have a word with an American premier Krieghoff dealer and he told me that he cant get enough of them, because Americas top shot Harrlam Campbell jnr has changed to one and he was winning everything.
So off I went to talk to the mighty Campbell. After introducing myself to him he went on to tell me about the lengthy process it was for him to get the gun to shoot where he wanted it to, but it was well worth the wait because he has never shot so well and so consistent in his life and he puts it down to the extra visibility of the high rib and the reduced recoil (as thes guys shoot 32grm cartridges).
So as I return back to England I cant wait to get back out there with my k80 trap special and try to give those yanks a run for their money (not that we didnt this time) check out our scores for the South Western Grand. |
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| Re: K80 TRAP SPECIAL | Alan (Alan Rhone) - 2007-04-28 11:35:08 | Hi Paul and welcome back. Thanks for your input, especially re the US shooting scene. I note your scores in the South Western Grand and very well done to you all. If I can get a complete list I will add them to the news section as I doubt the link there will be active for very long.
Alan |
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| K80 trap special | Englands X finest (Ian Ainsley) - 2007-04-24 07:27:30 | After after a lay off of some 15 years I got the urge again I bought a standard k80 with 32 inch barrels and off I went after some success I found I was missing some targets not because they were difficult but rather that I had not seen them.
After a few deep and meaning full discussions with Mr Rhone and my local krieghoff agent Rob Hall of the Gun Room located in North Yorkshire I orderd the trap special.
Some 12 weeks later after being cut off at the pass it arrived.
Off to the pattern plate I went and found the bottom barrel firing some 3 inches higher than the top, prefering both barrels to have the same point of impact I removed the no 5 hanger and fitted a number six.
Then off to east yorkshire gun club for the test with a 2+ choke in the bottom and a 3 in the top I was at em there was so much smoke coming from the clays the ground manager thought the forrest was on fire 2 24's and 6 25's with some good second barrel kills too. off to the abt and a 23 then the OT and a 22 but more importantly I can see the targets much better and find the higher head position less straining on the muscles Im vey pleased with the gun indeed now its up to me to make it happen. |
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| Re: K80 trap special | Alan (Alan Rhone) - 2007-04-24 08:35:46 | Very interesting to read about your set up. With the rib in zero position my bottom barrel was slightly higher than the top at 20 metres. 55/45 as against 50/50 for the top. I actually wanted my bottom barrel higher so switched the 5 for a 3. I probably had already altered the factory set up slightly by lowering the centre bead. This of course is the real benefit of the adjustable rib, you choose the point of impact you prefer for each barrel.
Sorry you had such a wait for your Trap Special but the situation should be much improved now. I do have small numbers in stock and have regular deliveries scheduled for the rest of the year. |
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| Trap Special | RobinD (Robin Dand) - 2007-04-23 22:10:28 | Dear Alan,
Thank you for your journal on the above subject. It is interesting to follow your progress from a 'standing start' with what seems is a new concept for Krieghoff. I particularly like your candid assessment of the misses - if we could all own up to pilot error! With regard to the rib arrangement of the Special Trap I think Perazzi had a similar idea, although I venture that folks at Ulm would have engineered a more robust arrangement.
I have a couple of questions. First, as someone who is primarily interested in OT I am keen to know more about the handling characteristics of the gun with such barrels. I have little doubt that they have been built with a view of not changing the handling compared with standard barrels, but it would be nice to hear about that and if they are available for all barrel configurations. Apologies if that is given somewhere and it hasn't registered with me.
Secondly, is the perceived reduced recoil helped by the barrels being heavier, or more to do with the head being located higher and therefore the line of recoil being more into the shoulder? If the latter then I would be also interested in knowing if there would be a way of measuring such 'lines of force'. If so, it would be an interesting way of assessing the amount of muzzle flip from one gun to another. Just a thought and perhaps a minor subject one day for your excellent monthly article.
I note that the international web-site has some more details on the Special Trap and also wondered if there was a reason why your site did not show the same?
Kind regards
Robin |
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| Re: Trap Special | Alan (Alan Rhone) - 2007-04-23 22:48:00 | Hello Robin,
In actual fact the Trap Special has been in production for a while now and we had one of the prototypes in the UK when they were first launched. For any number of reasons, that I could speculate on, this model did not catch on in the UK market. It has proved a huge success in the United States and it has always been a concept that interested me, hence the test drive. As for owning up to pilot error, I think you would agree that very few misses are down to any other reason and it is rare indeed that we perfectly centre a target only to be cheated by fate. Of course we all make mistakes but that is the challenge of the game. I doubt it would be much entertainment if we never ever got it wrong.
The handling of the gun is something I have yet to work out. The gun, well mine anyway, weighs exactly 9lbs and has 32: o/u barrels. Since I first shot one of these I formed the opinion that it handled more like a 30". A view that is shared by my good friend John Bellamy. We both feel that this concept would work with 34" barrels although I have yet to convince Krieghoff to make me a set. The gun is amazingly fast and I do not know if this is to do with dynamics or vision. It may be as simple as the higher head position allows faster target identification and so you get a "jump" on the target. I don't know for sure but it is fast!
There is only one configuration in the O/U, that is 32 choke tubed. The matching barrel set is either a 34" unsingle or 34" top single for American Trap. I think that Krieghoff may have made some sets with fixed chokes as a special order but the Krieghoff choke tubes pattern so well that I cannot see any benefit.
My feeling is that the perceived recoil reduction is due to the position of the centre line of the bore relative to the recoil pad. As bore size and profile is the same then there can really be no other reason. Some calculation may be possible but I doubt I am qualified to do it.
We do have more information on this site about the Trap Special and it was published more than a year ago. It appears as a sub-category in the K-80 section or at http://www.krieghoff.co.uk/17.html
I note though that this is a little sketchy and also somewhat out of date. I have made a note to re-write this as soon as possible.
I think that early lack of interest on this market stalled much of the marketing effort. If I am honest I will also admit that I have been so involved with our move to new premises the past year that I failed to make time to shoot one myself. Now that I have I am a fan.
Alan |
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| Re: Trap Special | RobinD (Robin Dand) - 2007-04-24 22:10:03 | Dear Alan,
Many thanks for your prompt reply. It is certainly food for thought and all makes logical sense.
Kind regards
Robin |
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