Winchester Grand European Con Kapralos - 03:18 12/11/2002
Dear Alan, Hi there. This question is not regarding your area of expertise, the Krieghoff, but I am after some info on the Winchester Grand European U/O shotgun and thought you may be able to shed some light on it. I have just purchased a 30 inch version with 1/4 & 3/4 chokes. Did this variant of the 101 come out on only as a trap version or were there other variants ? Many people have told me that they were trap guns mainly with 3/4 & full chokes. Have you any info on their background. Also, what areas on these guns are prone to give problems (ones that you have seen that is?) Any information will be greatly appreciated Alan. With Thanks, Con.
Re: Winchester Grand European Alan - 17:25 12/11/2002
Hi Con,
here in the UK the Grand European was available in Trap, Skeet and Sporting models. The first one I ever saw was a Skeet gun. It was a good gun and very quickly developed quite a following. It was made by Nikko who also made the Shadow o/u and later, Classic Doubles. As you will know the Nikko factory was sold for development and production ceased. Problems were few. There is a tendency to shoot loose but rejointing with a new hinge pin usually cures that and can be done by any good gunsmith. Ejector hammers can and do break and spares are now a problem. All in all this was a good gun and a great pity that it is no longer made.
custom engraving a K-80 keith lovegrove - 01:15 18/11/2002
Hello Alan
To custom engrave a K 80 it needs to be annealed before the work can be done. Do you see a problem with this as long as it is hardened back to the original hardness after the engraving is completed.Thanks in advance for your responce.
Re: custom engraving a K-80 Alan - 08:04 18/11/2002
This is not a good idea. The hardening process for a K-80 receiver is extremely complex and can only be done with full knowledge of the specification of the material used. Even then there are many risks in trying to soften and re-harden. This is not a process that would be undertaken lightly even at the factory when they know exactly what is required.
Put simply you run a real risk of damaging the receiver beyong repair and there is a question mark over the relative strength of the receiver after this work has been done.
Krieghoff trap gun Gijs - 14:49 25/11/2002
Hi Alan,
Does Krieghoff have a trap gun with the following specifications:
barrels: 32", M/C, adjustable comb, adjustable rib, recoil reduction device (length of stock to be given later).
What would the price roughly be and can I trade in my almost new Perazzi sporter?
Guy
Re: Krieghoff trap gun Alan - 15:23 25/11/2002
We do make a 32" choke tubed Trap gun with adjustable comb. Adjustable rib is a development that may or may not happen in the future. Currently we do have one or two ideas under development in the factory but I cannot say when, or if, this will be offered. There are always downsides to adjustable ribs. They need a higher comb to get your eye up to the rib which takes you further away from the barrels. An adjustable rib is almost always going to be heavier than a fixed rib unless it is made of some lightweight material; fine but it is more easily damaged. To me the biggest disadvantage is that shooters tend to struggle to set them up and very quickly get lost between rib and comb adjustment. This is not to say that Krieghoff will never offer an adjustable rib it is just that I have personal reservations about such a project.
Recoil reduction is possible and there are several ways this can be done ranging from the simple mercury type, inserted into the stock, through the Isis and Danuser types and ending with the Precision Fit Stock. The latter is a complete replacement stock and incorporates comb, cast and length adjustment.
With regard to price and trade in details you need to contact one of our dealers - full details on the "Dealers" page.
K-80 for Olympic bunker trap John Kissam - 04:12 05/12/2002
Alan,
I am an American trap shooter and would very much appreciate any suggestions you or others may have on how I may set up my K-80 for Olympic bunker trap. A local club has a U.S. Olympic Committee sanctioned bunker (complete with certification on the wall) and a growing number of us who are interested. The crowd that currently holds forth on the subject is dominated by Perazzi people from San Francisco. I try to hold neither of those against them. They do go on about what is proper for the game. My O/U barrels are 32" choke tube with a 12-8mm tapered step rib. Wonderful for American trap doubles! I have a complete set of barrel hangers and a bucket full of choke tubes. I currently shoot a #5 hanger that delivers a 60/40 POI from the bottom barrel at 40 yards. The top barrel is absolutely 50/50 flat at that same distance. I use a Briley "excentrix" tube in the top to influence the POI up 8" at 40 yards to achieve the necessary 60/40 in the top barrel. My stock is a Krieghoff adjustable. I would very much appreciate any suggestions on where to start in setting up my K-80. Thanks much!
Re: K-80 for Olympic bunker trap Alan - 08:16 05/12/2002
Good to hear that you have a local Olympic Trap facility as although a very challenging discipline it can be very entertaining to shoot. Although the discipline tends to be dominated by Perazzi shooters, due to the strong following for this game in Italy, you need have no fears about shooting it with your K-80. In many regards the K-80 is the perfect gun for the job it is just that the OT shooters haven't realised this fact yet. As you will already know from shooting Trap Doubles, the K-80 is very fast handling. Although a heavy gun the weight is very much between the hands and this makes for a responsive gun that stays on line when chasing a fast target. The low recoil and minimal muzzle flip allow you to fire a controlled second shot much faster than you could if you were still fighting to get the muzzle back on target. We K-80 shooters know this already of course. The ace in the pack is the ability to change the point of impact on that first barrel.
One of the big problems in Olympic Trap is the compulsory 24gm load. Frankly it cannot be guaranteed that this will break a perfectly centred pattern at OT ranges 100% of the time. This brings an element of luck into the game, which I feel has no place in an Olympic discipline.
Your K-80 has screw-in chokes and these throw superb and regular patterns. You need to pattern test with the shells you will use and determine the choke that will work best at the ranges you will typically fire. As a rough guide you should be looking for the same pattern out of the top barrel at 5 - 7 yards greater distance than you fire the first.
The first thing you need to check in your set up is the impact point of that top barrel. I have patterned a lot of K-80s both step and flat rib and I never saw one yet that shot 50/50 with the top barrel. 70/30 would be more typical on a Trap set up. If yours is shooting 50/50 with the beads stacked figure of eight then something is wrong possibly with the choke tube if you are not shooting original factory tubes. The bottom barrel we don't need to worry about as you can place that wherever you want it. My personal choice for the bottom barrel is a little higher than the top as the target is travelling faster when it first emerges. Ignore the opinion that says you will shoot over the top of the grass cutters as this target is going away very fast and you have to shoot over its back to hit it. A slightly high first barrel allows you to more or less shoot straight at it and is a help on the steeply climbing targets. To be more specific if my top barrel is shooting both to the same point with a #4 hanger then I put a #3 hanger to lift the bottom 3"-4". This is not enough change to worry about a different point of impact but it does mean I centre more targets. In OT with 24gm this is important.
As regards stock set up I would recommend you start with your comb higher than you normally would for American Trap. I like to see quite a lot of rib for OT and Wobble Trap. The idea is to look out over the gun in the area you expect to first see the target. Seeing it early is the key and having your eye up above the rib removes a visual obstacle. Gun fit is important here, as you need to concentrate on early target acquisition and a smooth controlled move to the target. You must not look back at the rib and try to line it up. Just look at the target and shoot it. The high comb will not mean you shoot over the top, as your eye is higher than, but parallel to the rib. Point of impact will be unchanged so long as you do not look back at the gun. Pay attention to the cast setting on your comb, as you need to be 100% confident that your eye is behind the rib. That is about it for gun set up. Key points are:
1) Correct cast to ensure eye is behind rib.
2) Higher comb for clearer view.
3) Correct choke choice for load and distance.
Good luck and enjoy your shooting.
barrels justin - 18:06 05/12/2002
Will Krieghoff be making a 34" barrel like perazzi and gamba?
Re: barrels Alan - 20:59 05/12/2002
All I can say on this subject is "I sincerely hope not".
Re: barrels Rick del Monte - 02:10 13/12/2002
Come on Alan, we need a little more insight than that. As you know Andy Duffy has had quite a year shooting his 34" Perazzi and it has definitely gotten people's attention. These 34" barrels are quite light, and I am told very responsive. I keep hearing how these longer barrels help with long targets. I noticed that all of the US based Kreighoff sponsored shooters are using the 32" barrels, so there definitely seems to be a trend towards longer barrels, why not 34"?
Rick
Re: barrels Alan Rhone - 23:03 13/12/2002
Personal viewpoint that is all. I know that some shooters enjoy success with 34" barrels but the same shooters shoot as well if not better with 32". I believe the 34" length to be a passing fad because the majority of shooters will not shoot them well. It is true that there is a lot of interest in 32" barrels these days but again I do believe that most shooters are better suited by the 30". Sure the longer barrels are great on long edge on crossing targets but they are not nearly so convenient when you get the little tricky targets closer in. You need a gun that you can shoot at all ranges not just the long stuff. For most that will be 30" and for the rest 32". Some shooters will suit the 34" just as some suit the 28", but these will always be the minority. Only time will tell.
Re: barrels justin - 00:19 14/12/2002
Why not ?
Re: barrels Alan - 09:38 14/12/2002
Hi Justin,
My reasons are in the posting below headed "barrels"
calibre Leonard Gant - 17:52 15/12/2002
is t possible to have a double rifle chambered for custom calibres .30-06 ackley improved or .338/06 improved?
Re: calibre Alan - 20:34 15/12/2002
Although possible the production schedule at the factory means that it is not economically practical to make the double rifles in any calibres other than the standard calibres listed in the catalogue.
Difference justin - 15:24 26/12/2002
Alan, what's the difference between a K 80 30" sporter and a 30" skeet [ if you opt for the same stock and a multichoke ] ?
Re: Difference Alan - 18:15 26/12/2002
Hi Justin,
A K-80 Skeet gun has as standard an 8mm rib and fixed chokes along with the #5 Skeet stock. Barrel length is normally 28". Options available are the 12-8mm tapered rib, screw-in choke barrels and the #3 Sporting/Skeet stock. You can also specify 30" barrels. Today, here in the UK, very few customers buy a "standard" Skeet gun and opt for 30" choke tubed barrels with the taper rib and #3 stock. This gun is then identical to the K-80 Sporter model Likewise you can specify the 8mm rib etc on a K-80 sporter.
The important thing to understand is the modular nature of the K-80. All K-80 receivers are the same and it is the barrel and stock options that determine what discipline they are best suited for. As we say in the catalogue, it is perfectly possible to change a 34" Trap K-80 into a Skeet gun in seconds. For many of our customers this is the main appeal of the K-80.
Barrels Rusty Wafer - 19:15 17/01/2003
Hi Alan,
Is there any quality difference between the K-32 and K-80 barrels. Different steel of in process.
Re: Barrels Alan - 22:49 17/01/2003
If you mean betweenModel 32 and K-80 barrels made to today then the answer is there are many differences. you have to remember that the Model 32 barrels were made more than 20 years ago and in that time Krieghoff have made many changes to their barrel production - both in technical speciifcation and in material. I guess the Model 32 barrels were pretty close to the early K-80 production but that similarity became less with every passing year. Today's K-80 barrels are made using the latest and strongest barrel steel and with the aid of more sophisticated machinery and computer aided design.
ulm shotgun Ken - 17:26 26/01/2003
Alan: We do not see many Ulm sidelock guns in
the U.S.. I am thing of buying this used 12 ga.
What can you tell me about it. Is it as tough
as it looks.
Thanks
Ken
San Antonio, Texas
Re: ulm shotgun Alan - 21:47 26/01/2003
The Ulm sidelock is not a gun we see many of here in the UK. It is a very well made gun but the factory tell me they do not recommend it for Clay Target Shooting. I am guessing this is because they do not feel it is robust enough for the number of shells that could get put through it shooting targets. Compared to the K-80, which will take as many shots as you can put through it, I guess they have a point. My personal opinion is that it is very well put together and certainly no worse than other sidelocks I see being sold for clay target games.
Release triggers Rick del Monte - 01:44 07/02/2003
Alan, i have developed an early flinch. It appears about two or three times a round, almost always when I ride a bird. Very distressing when it happens. I already shoot light, slow loads in a K-80, so I am doing as much as I can about recoil. So I am now considering a release trigger. With your considerable experience I was wondering if you had any insights on these triggers both from a shooting and mechanical point of view?
Thank you,
Rick
Re: Release triggers Alan - 23:01 07/02/2003
Hi Rick,
Sorry to hear this as a flich can be the devil. In my experience it appears when the stakes are high and when you try to "make sure" of a target. Of course it can happen in practice if you are serious about breaking them all. Recoil has long thought to be one of the causes but I believe fear of missing and not seeing the target leave are the two biggest factors. You ask about release triggers and I can tell you that for many shooters they can be the miracle cure. I have fitted a release for a good number of shooters who were really shooting badly due to a flinch. The transformation has been magical and immediate. A word or two of caution. Release triggers are best suited to Trapshooting when they really can be a better way to go. I know some shooters who use them for Skeet but in that instance I would recommend Release/Release rather than the Release/Pull favoured by Trapshooters. The combination of singles and doubles plus one barrel fired by Release and the other by Pull can be confusing and, consequently, dangerous. It can be done and I have shot Skeet with Release/Pull on my Trap gun but you really have to work hard to be sure you know what will happen when you next pull the trigger. I do not recommend it. As for Sporting Clays I cannot say. Shooting gun up when you can set the trigger prior to calling for the target would be OK but shooting gun down is sure to lead to setting the trigger during the gun mount and this is dangerous. You must never ever set a release trigger unless the gun is firmly bedded in the shoulder and under complete control.
The release on the K-80 is especially good, probably because the factory designed the gun for a release and most of the parts are there already. You only need have the plate and cam fitted and the gun is ready to go. That is not to say it is a five minute job as setting it up requires considerable expertise. The release on the K-80 is very reliable and, in my experience here, gives very little trouble at all.
Lastly, I would fit a release only as a last resort. Work on seeing the target and you may find the flinch goes away.
Alan
Re: Release triggers Rick del Monte - 16:04 08/02/2003
Thank you for the insight Alan. I shoot about half skeet and half sporting. Skeet with a double release seems workable with some practice, I am struggling with how to do it in sporting. I almost never flinch on the first shot with gun down, but the second shot when the gun is already in the shoulder can be a problem. I suspect it is that rhythm of move...mount...baam, that keeps you from flinching. When you stop to think about it the act of shooting a moving target is quite a complex neurological chain of events. I realize that if I could stop riding birds I might lick this problem, but there are always those two or three birds per round that get me.
I am glad to hear that Kreighoff has reliable release triggers, I hear from my trapshooting friends that release triggers can be very temperamental if not installed correctly.
Thanks,
Rick
Re: Release triggers Alan - 22:55 08/02/2003
I suspected that it may be Sporting that was giving you the problem and I have been giving the question of using a release for sporting targets some thought. If you could be certain that you only ever had a problem on the second shot then Pull/Release might work but what would you do on following single targets? You would also loose the main benefit of an over/under and that is instant barrel and choke selection if the target demands it. If you are using a release with either barrel still operating as a Pull trigger it is imperative that you have the selector locked off. If not it is easy to visualise a situation where the selector has been moved and you think you have a release and it fires on set. It seems to me that the wide variety of targets shot at Sporting Clays demands that both barrels are fired the same way, either Pull/Pull or Release/Release. As I said in my earlier post, the biggest problem with Release in a gun down situation is when do you set the trigger. Normal practice and safe gun handling would say that you only set it when the gun is in the shoulder and under full control. In this case you would almost certainly find that you have made the problem worse as now all your shots will be more deliberate. The only other way is to set the trigger on the way up but a fluffed gun mount or a snag on your jacket would most likely result in a premature discharge. Apart from costing you a target it scares the hell out of everyone around you and very soon you will find yourself shooting alone.
It is possible that with a very determined mind set that you could learn to set the trigger at the very instant the gun bumps home in the shoulder pocket. I think it is possible. The potential problem is that human nature makes us take short cuts. We tend to cut every task down to the minimum required movement until we go too far and then we back off some. I am certain that you would begin to set the trigger earlier and earlier. I can even visualise some shooters setting the trigger as they call for the target. I know some Trapshooters who set the trigger as they begin the gun mount. On cold days with cold fingers they sometimes blow a hole in the ground as they do so. If you are very disciplined it should be possible to set the trigger at the exact time the gun arrives in the shoulder. Release/Release is the only way to go and never forget the potential for danger if you get careless.
Re: Release triggers Rick del Monte - 04:44 09/02/2003
Thank you Alan, you have given me a lot to think about. I agree that release/release is probably the only way to go. I may have to consider a modifies gun-up sporting technique which I now use for short window targets, with the stock on the shoulder but the head up for better vision. Release triggers seem like a big step, kind of like joinig alcoholics anonymous; 'Hi, my name is Rick and I'm a flincher'.
Regards,
Rick
chokes justin - 22:50 10/02/2003
When ordering a fixed choke K-80, are the chokes a standard size[ e.g. 1/4 and 3/4 ] or can you have what ever you want ?
Re: chokes Alan - 21:40 17/02/2003
Hi Justin,
Sorry for the tardy reply. All fixed choke K-80s we keep here are IM and Full but you can have whatever you want. Just specify the chokes when you order the gun and we will supply accordingly at no extra cost.
Alan
K-80 Ejectors Richard Miller - 17:16 17/02/2003
Alan, I just purchased a used K-80 SN26XXX. Is there a way to determine if the ejector springs have been modified to the stronger springs? I know I may be in the minority here, but I would rather have light springs. Thanks in advance. Richard K.
Re: K-80 Ejectors Alan - 21:37 17/02/2003
Hi Richard,
There is no easy way that I can think of. The wire gauge is different between standard and strong springs so if you can measure the diameter that will tell you. Standard are 0.65mm (0.0256") and strong are 0.7mm (0.0276"). There used to be an extra strong at 0.75mm (0.0295") but these are no longer available. the last batch of strong springs I received were dark in colour, almost black but I would not say this is always the case.
Alan
K-80 Coin Receiver Richard Miller - 01:36 19/02/2003
Alan, Is the forearm iron on a coin gold super scroll nickel or coin? There is not any gold inlay on my forearm iron. By the way, two thumbs up on your site. I spent most of the day reviewing all K-80 post, there is a great deal of information collected here. Try to keep as many of the old post as possible, this like K-80 101 class. Thanks, Richard K.
Re: K-80 Coin Receiver Alan - 08:20 19/02/2003
Thank you for the kind comments. You should be able to view all the postings on the site by choosing "All" from the drop down box at the top. You also have the choice to view as complete postings or by title which is much quicker if you want to search for a particular topic.
Now to your K-80. So long as the forearm is original to the receiver and carries the same number it will have the same finish - always. So if your receiver is coin then your forearm iron is as well.
Alan
K-80 POI Richard K. Miller - 14:29 01/03/2003
Alan, If there is no specification from the customer, how would the factory regulate the barrels of a K-80? I know this could be ammunition and shooter specific, but do they try for 50/50, 60/40, etc. I believe you mentioned in a previous post they would set the bottom barrel to the same POI as the top. Thanks, Richard K.
Re: K-80 POI Alan - 22:12 01/03/2003
Normally the barrels will print 60/40 on a Sporter and both barrels will shoot to the same point of impact. A number of shooters ask for 50/50 thinking that this will print the pattern where they are looking. the problem with this is that you have to blot out the target to centre it in the pattern. Most of us will want to see tha target when we pull the trigger and 60/40 does this nicely.
K-80 POI Richard K. Miller - 14:32 01/03/2003
Sorry, I should have added a Sporting Clays Model K-80 to the post. Richard K.
K80 spec phil c - 20:28 02/03/2003
Is it possible to order a new K80 where the receiver is blued and has no engraving?
Thanks
Re: K80 spec Alan - 21:31 02/03/2003
It is definitely possible but would be a special order. We would not make an extra charge but you would have to wait for the gun as we could not take one of our standard inventory orders. Delivery would be about eight months from order.
Kreighoff release triggers Rick del Monte - 03:59 03/03/2003
Alan I have been shooting a double release in my MX-8 for a few weeks now and I think this is going to work for me, so it is time to getr the K-80 converted. I really miss its ability to soak up recoil. After dealing with the MX-8 release I had a some of questions;
-I have heard people who suggest using an independent release installer because Kreighoff will set the factory release too slow. I don't plan to do this, but how do you typically set the factory release, and are there options for adjustment (factory of course)? Shooters seem to refer to the weight of the release, with the lighter weights being slower.
-It seems that release triggers require more maintenace. On the MX-8 I was advised to clean and grease the pin and hook every time I use the gun. Since the K-80 trigger doesn't pop out, what needs to be done in the way of maintenance and service? In general have these triggers been pretty reliable?
Thanks again for your insights,
Rick
Krieghoff release triggers Alan - 09:03 03/03/2003
Hi Rick, I am glad to hear that the double release is working for you. I have been thinking about your problem since your last communication and would be very interested to hear of your experience and techniques. Drop me a note to alan@krieghoff.co.uk if you can spare the time.
Regarding installation and weights. A release is a little more complex than a pull trigger as you have three figures to think about. The first is the set weight, that is the amount of weight it takes to pull the trigger and set the release. Second is the hold weight, the amount that you need to keep on the trigger to hold it in the set position. Lastly there is the release weight and that is the weight at which the hammer takes over and fires the gun. With a pull trigger you only have two, the pull weight to fire the gun and the changeover weight; how much you let the trigger go before it selects the second barrel.
We, and by this I mean any Krieghoff facility, will work with you to set the release exactly how you want it. Don't forget that the K-80 is designed to be fitted with a release and the release hammers are already installed. No one understands the system and the interaction of the parts better than a Krieghoff gunsmith. In the USA Norbert is you man and I can guarantee he will set the trigger exactly how you want it and will also give you some good recommendations and his reasons for doing it that way.
My personal observations are that the set weight wants to be somewhat heavier than your normal trigger pull and the release does not want to be too fast. I have shot a release extensively myself and I can tell you that they fire much quicker than a pull trigger even when set slow. When you set one really fast it is almost unshootable because the gun fires to soon causing a miss behind. For example, you swing after a long crossing target and just as you see you sight picture you mentally give the fire command. The gun goes off instantly and the shot is behind the target. A slower setting would have given the extra milliseconds for your lead to develop. Many times I have found shooters struggling with a release and in every case slowing down the trigger has worked a miracle. Every time I fit a release the customer asks for a really fast setting but they do not realise that they will be quicker with a release anyway. My advice is start slow and get really used to the gun. It is a few moments work to speed it up a little later.
Reliability if not an issue with the K-80. As I said the gun is designed to have a release fitted and the factory unit is really good. All the parts are hard enough and when set with the correct angles you will find that nothing changes. I do recommend to my customers that they get the gun checked over at least once a year but there are many shooting a release that I fitted some years ago and I have never seen them since. Speaks volumes for the system.
On maintenance take Norberts advice but I can say that my customers don't do anything, no matter what I recommend. They just shoot the gun and rely on it working which is how it should be I guess. Certainly any adjustments would be automatically taken care of at annual service. Now if I can just get them to bring the gun in for an annual I wil have it cracked.
Key is to get the job done by Krieghoff people using Krieghoff parts. You will then have a reliable trigger set to your individual requirement.
K80 Age Phil C - 19:10 04/03/2003
Would you be able to tell me what age K80 serial number 001466 is? And what the original specifications are and if there are any significant upgrades required.
Thanks Phil
Re: K80 Age Alan - 21:05 04/03/2003
This gun was first sold in February 2001 and therefore has 8 years warranty remaining once the next owner registers the gun with us. Original specification was Standard engraving, nickel finish. 32" barrels with taper flat rib. Fixed chokes 3 & 4. Stock was originally #6 Monte-Carlo adjustable with #III straight forearm. It was recently in our workshop to have new wood fitted. The new wood is a #1A Monte-Carlo trap stock with matching #III straight forearm. This gun is current speciifcation and no updates are required.
Trap Ribs phil c - 17:55 06/03/2003
Would you be kind enough to explain the differences between stepped and non-stepped ribs. The American market guns seem to have stepped ribs whereas the gun I am looking at has no step. Does this affect the point of impact and what are the advantages/ disadvantages of each type?
Thanks
Re: Trap Ribs Alan - 20:05 06/03/2003
Firstly let me expalin that Krieghoff have a policy of supplying market specific guns. For example all guns destined for the US market have stocks finished with a hard waterproof expoxy lacquer, to better cope with the extremes of weather found on that continent, whereas UK guns have an oil finish in line with our tradition. UK spec sporting stocks are 4mm higher in the comb than the US version and the different rib configuration is another example. The standard "Trap" rib is the taper step but here in the UK this was disliked by the majority of shooters and so UK guns have always been fitted with taper flat barrels. The rib is actually not flat but has a gradual ramp up to the surface rather than the abrupt step of the US version. As regards height and taper and so on, there is actually no difference beyond the step. Both ribs are identical in height and the top barrel on both types impact to the same point; the bottom barrel is adjustable on both. Interestingly there has been a surge of interest in the step rib here in the last 18 months or so and a number of shooters have taken to this style. The step rib was introduced specifically for the American market and to cater for their high gun hold. The step rib is actually the same as a flat rib but the rearward portion is cut away. This does allow for marginally better vision past the rib when using a high gun hold. As in all other aspects we can offer the step rib as a no charge option and we do carry that specification on the shelf.
K-80 Screw Chokes Richard Miller - 00:07 08/03/2003
Alan, I hope you never tire of us Yanks and choke tubes, but I have a another question. First, I have read every post and your reply on K-80 screw-in chokes. I am also clear on how you check them but I still have a small problem. I purchased my K-80 used from an individual who said the gun came originally from Krieghoff with 5 tubes. Two "0"'s, two "1"'s and one "2". Those tubes have 6 splines and are marked with large numbers so they can be read with the muzzles horizontal. He also gave me three more Krieghoff chokes, a "00", a "2", and a "3". These three chokes have 12 splines and have the numbers lightly engraved or stamped in the spline. The numbering is small and oriented vertically not horizontally. My barrels measure between .732 and .733. If I have followed your directions correctly, here is what I have. The "00" is .740 or .007 over bore diameter. The "0"'s are slightly over .729 or .003. The "1"'s are just over .719 or .013. The "2"s are .714 or .018. The "3" is .706 or .027. As you can see the "0", "2", and "3" agree with your values of .003,.017, and .027. But whats up with my "00" and "1"? I am not concerned with the "00", but the "1" is almost a light mod. I hope I have not confused you or me. Thanks, Richard K.
Re: K-80 Screw Chokes Alan - 10:37 08/03/2003
Hi Richard,
Never, I enjoy receiving your questions and it is a pleasure to try and provide an answer.
The first part of this is easy. Originally K-80 choke tubes had 12 splines and a tiny number, these were coupled with a 12 spline wrench. Good system but the numbers were a little hard to read. Krieghoff redesigned the tube to 6 splines which allowed more room for a bigger laser etched number. The wrench was redesigned at the same time and the new 6 spline wrench will fit both versions of the chokes.
Part two is much more difficult. Firstly I agree that there is something wrong with your 00 choke. It should measure bore diameter +/- .001. I just measured a few here and they are exactly bore size, which is what Cylinder means. There were two new choke constrictions introduced in 2002, LM (1+) and LIM (2+). At the same time the original choke sizes were brought more into line with standard measurements. The new sizes are as follow:
CYL (00), no constriction, bore size.
SK (0), 0.005" smaller than bore.
IC (1), 0.010"
LM (1+) 0.015"
Mod (2) 0.020"
LIM (2+) 0.025"
IM (3) 0.030"
Full (4) 0.035"
SF (5) 0.040"
The new chokes are marked "2002" on the side.
Actually the measurements used in manufacture will be metric with 1mm being equal to 0.0394". So SF equals 1mm constriction and Mod equals 0.5mm or 0.0197". For choke purposes the measurements I have quoted are going to be within +/- .001". I check measured some chokes here and that is what I find. The new sizes are more logical and a 0.005" gap between sizes covers everything. Around the time of the change something a little odd did happen with the No.1 choke. I did receive some here that measured 13 thou instead of the 10 thou they should have done. I don't know what happened but it only affected the one batch and was corrected as soon as the factory became aware of it. Oddly I had no trouble moving these on to shooters who wanted something a little tighter than IC but not as much as LM! Now that really is fine tuning. Before anyone asks I am certain that Krieghoff will not now split the sizes further and bring out chokes in 0.0025" increments.
Alan
Re: K-80 Screw Chokes Richard K. Miller - 14:54 09/03/2003
Thanks for the help, the .013 had me scrathing my head. A little more on the "00". When I slowly move the bore gauge out of the muzzle, it reads between .732 and .733 until it enters the choke where it opens quickly to .742. It then reduces to .740 the rest of the way out of the tube. All the other choke tubes make a similar jump to around .740 before reducing to the proper constriction. I assume this is the "skirt area" you discussed in a previous post. By the way I shot the .013 "1" in a match with great success. In my local area, it could make a good all-round choke. Thanks again. Richard K.
Re: K-80 Screw Chokes Alan - 08:58 10/03/2003
You are correct as all chokes have to have a safety step at the base. If the choke was exactly bore size at the skirt there would be a lot more chokes shooting out. It is odd that your 00 is .740 all the way through though but thinking about it I am guessing it will perform exactly the same as the regular .732 Cylinder would. Anything larger than bore size is not going to have any effect on the pattern and so your choke effectively ends with the barrel proper - before entering the choke. The size at that point is .732 so I would expect the gun to throw a Cylinder pattern.
K-80 grease Richard K. Miller - 21:16 12/03/2003
Alan, My K-80 is a little difficult to open after both barrels have been fired. The gun closes easily and opens easily if it has not been fired. Krieghoff instructions only show grease on the barrel wings, the barrel lug where the forearm attaches, and around the hinge pin area. Are there any other spots you might recommend to ease in opening after the gun has been fired? Thanks, Richard K.
Re: K-80 grease Alan - 22:37 12/03/2003
Hi Richard,
The spots you mention just about cover it but a little detective work will identify the problem. First of all you need to see exactly at what point it is hard to open. Does the top lever push across normally or is it that sticking. If the top lever is hard to move then it is probably biting on one of the barrel wings heavier than the other. Keep some lubrication on the wing edges and it will wear in after a few hundred shots. If the top lever moves normally but the barrel is hard to pull down but gets to a certain point and then opens normally, it is almost certain that the headspace is a little tight for the shells you are using. We keep headspace tight on a K-80 as it reduces recoil. If you then get a shell that is a little thick in the rim you will find the gun stubborn to open. As you say it is when both barrels have been fired I am guessing that the top barrel has the tighter headspace. If you are using homeloads then perhaps your rim sizer is not bringing the rim down to factory tolerances. I should check this before doing anything else. If you are using factory ammo try a different brand just to see if the problem persists. The cure is to deepen the rim slightly but note that I am talking about thous here. Cut it too deep and you will increase recoil. KI will be able to help you with this for sure but pelase check the cartridges first.
Let me know how you get on.
precision stock fit brian - 11:23 16/03/2003
Alan would you tell me the full measurements that you can get in cast-off and drop at comb on the precision fit stock. Thank you brian.
Re: precision stock fit Alan - 20:23 18/03/2003
Sorry for the delay in reply but I have been out of office and returned only today.
It is not posible to quote the measurements you ask for. On the PFS there are a number of ways of setting up each dimension and setting one way would give a different result than another and may comprimise what is possible in another dimension. It is also not as simple as just quoting cast or drop as these measurements are not strictly related to each ohter on this type of stock. You can for instance adjust cast at comb independently from cast at heel. Sorry that I cannot be more specific.
Purchasing a barrel in UK Craig - 17:21 18/03/2003
Hi Alan,
I recently relocated to England (Century House, The Lakes,Northampton NN4 7SJ United Kingdom) from the US due to a career change and own several K80's. I was hoping to purchase a 32" sporter barrel with CT here in the near future while waiting to have my K80 brought over (if possible) but not sure if I can purchase a barrel only in the UK without a gun license. In the US the receiver is considered the firearm and the barrel, stock, forearm are not regulated. Can you please advise what is the case in the UK. What do I need just to purchase a barrel.
Thanks,
Craig
Re: Purchasing a barrel in UK Alan - 20:27 18/03/2003
Hello Craig,
Sorry to give you bad news but you must have a valid shotgun certificate to be in possession of shotgun barrels. British Law includes the barrels as vital component parts and the purchase of them is subject to a licence. The good news is that you have not lost any time as we need the gun to fit the barrels and will not supply them unfitted. Once you get your license and K-80 over here we will be able to help.
Alan
Parts Bag mill4570 - 14:04 22/03/2003
Alan, What are the small parts that come with a K-80? I recognize the balls and springs for the ejectors, but there are a couple of small clips and what looks like a long firing pin. Any ideas?
Thanks,
Richard K.
Re: Parts Bag Alan - 14:20 22/03/2003
Hi Richard, I cannot be certain of the contents for the USA market but here in the UK you get a spare ejector retaining ball and spring, an allen wrench for adjusting the trigger blade, a spare set screw for the trigger and some c-clips in case you loose one when you have the stock off. The sears etc rotate on axis pins that pass between the two side plates; these pins are held in place with a c-clip on either end and it is these you get in the spares kit. I have no idea what the "long firing pin" is though.
Alan
which gun!!? alan williams - 13:30 03/04/2003
Alan,
I hope you don't mind giving a bit of general advice and please excuse this long rambling email!
I gave up shooting about 10 years back due to family committments and have recently decided to start up gain. I hasten to add that I was never any good! So, I am now looking to buy a new gun and need some good advice. At the moment I swing between beretta,Browning, Perazzi, Kemen and of course Krieghoff. I also vary between 12 and 20 bore. It's hopeless! To get to the point, I will use the gun for clays, mainly sporting and only for fun, no intention of entering competions. I want a decent gun, always had cheaper versions before and this time want something that is a pleasure to use and own. Also not something that loses value the minute a shot is put through it. So my choices are limitless and I don't know where to start. A K-20 ? Note that at a recent lesson, the coach pointed out that I had a tendency to snap or rush at the clays, so perhaps a long barrel is the way to go? Or maybe the wight of the K-80. The big question is do I spend this much on a gun that will be used just for fun?
thanks in advance for your opinions.
p.s. went to Lakenheath last week but did not get the chance to talk to the guy there or see the guns (and no 20's in stock I think)
Re: which gun!!? Alan - 21:03 03/04/2003
Taking your last point first I am quite surprised. Pete Usher at Lakenheath has a lot of Krieghoff guns in stock, including the K-20 and sub gauge barrel sets. His gun room is separate from the clubhouse for security. Did you ask to see him? I am certain he would have been only to pleased to show you the guns.
As to gun choice I can give you some general advice but I am not prepared to go down the route of recommending one make against another. I am Krieghoff in the UK and I recommend our products without hesitation but cannot give an opinion on the others - it would not be fair to do so.
High quality guns are expensive and there is no way around that. The pure man hours it takes to build one means that it has to be expensive. Are they worth the money? I believe they are because something of quality is a pleasure to own and use and will always keep a high residual value. A K-80 for example will give many years of enjoyment and still be worth good money when you are finished. It does not matter if you are not a top shooter as there is no reason why you should not enjoy a top gun. You are the only one who can decide if it should be a 12 or a 20. Both will do the job efficiently. The K-20 is a full weight gun and so the recoil level will be no more than you would expect from a 12b firing standard loads. It is a very nice gun to shoot. If you are only shooting for enjoyment it is an excellent choice and I would not say you are handicapping yourself by using a 20. the problem comes when doubt creeps in. It is inevitable that you will sometimes struggle with a target and begin to feel undergunned. Once the belief that you would have shot better with a 12b enters your mind you will never enjoy shooting the 20 as much again. My advice, for what it is worth, is this. If you are only going to own one gun, make it a 12b. A 20b is great fun and will probably be the gun you shoot most BUT, only if you have a 12 to fall back on.
Re: which gun!!? ginnyoneuk - 10:23 04/04/2003
Alan,
thanks for your reply, I did go into the gun room at Lakenheath and saw some K-80's on display, Pete Usher was busy with some clients and I didn't really feel ready to hang around and waste his time when I am still unsure what to do. All your other points are helpful and I understand what you mean re the 12 v 20 issue. I guess I need to wind myself up to go over there again and discuss it with Pete. Also I ought to look at a few other makes too! Perhaps then the quality v price issue will be a no brainer.
thanks again for your time
alan w
K80, Top barrel shooting high Greg - 03:00 07/04/2003
Alan,
I bought a used K80 with 32" barrels. Serial #24xxx. I believe that the previous owner added the 32's aftermarket. They may have been trap barrels. When I shot it, the top barrel POI is 80/20. The bottom barrel is right on. The hanger is marked #6. The barrel has a flat tapered rib. What can I do about the top barrel? The barrel serial number is #A00171. Thanks. Greg.
Re: K80, Top barrel shooting high Alan - 22:02 07/04/2003
I don't have sufficient information to be able to help much. Are the barrels fixed or factory screw-in chokes? They do pattern differently and the hangers are numbered differently. Standard point of impact, in my experience, with a K-80, screw-choked barrels, would be about 60/40, with fixed choke barrels a little higher at 70/30. How did you test for point of impact? If you shot off a rest then the pattern will definitely be higher than shooting off-hand. first of all you need to pick the bottom barrel up a little to get both shooting to the same point of aim. I can't advise on a hanger size to do this as you don't tell me where the bottom barrel is shooting, only that it is "right on". Once you have both barrels shooting to the same place you need to do some serious pattern testing. Shoot at 20 - 25 yards and shoot groups of three shots without checking the result between shots. Shoot offhand, not from a rest. I will be surprised if you find that the gun is shooting as high as you believe it is. If you provide some more information I will try to give some more positive help.
Alan
Re: K80, Top barrel shooting high Greg - 00:58 08/04/2003
Alan,
I appreciate your response. The barrels came with F and IM (fixed). They were changed to Seminole thin walls. I pattered it off of a bench rest at 15 yards with IM. I talked to Nancy at Krieghoff (USA) today and she is sending me #3 and #4 hangers to try to bring the bottom barrel up. She couldn't believe that it had #6 in the gun. The previous owner may have changed it. She told me the procedure that K-USA uses to check POI. Stack the beads off of a bench and float the target at 6 o'clock, all from 20 yards. She implied that if I still am shooting high, the gun doesn't fit me. I would believe this if I were "point and shooting" the gun but I'm not. I don't believe that the "drop" has anything to do with it, if I am rifle shooting it. Am I wrong?
Anyway when I change the hanger and reshoot the gun I'll let you know. I will also shoot it off-hand as you have suggested. I have recently started to reload. Should I use factory or are my reloads OK?
Thank you,
Greg.
Re: K80, Top barrel shooting high Alan - 08:06 08/04/2003
Typically we find UK fixed choke barrels need a #5 hanger to put both barrels to the same point of aim. This does vary from gun to gun and it can be a 4 or 6. If your hanger is original to the gun it will have the last three digits of the serial number stamped inside the dovetail slot. When you receive the hangers do some pattern testing as suggested and see what the result is. If you are shooting off a bench make sure that you are not resting the barrel on anything other than your hand as the barrels will always shoot away from a solid object. This is why I recommend shooting off hand. The factory always pattern test barrels before shipping and Sporting barrels will have been regulated so that both shoot to the same point of aim. As your barrels are taper flat they should have been treated as sporting barrels. Trap barrels would be set differently but normally with the bottom barrel shooting a little higher. Sometimes a customer specifies something different at time of order. Did you pattern test the barrels before you had the chokes fitted? I don't wish to pass the blame onto the chokes but it would not be the first time I saw point of impact changes after chokes have been fitted. If your gun is fitted with the original hanger and the barrels are shooting to different places you can be pretty sure it did not leave the factory like that unless it was a special order. I will be interested to hear how you get on.
Alan
Closing a K-80 John - 18:21 07/04/2003
Alan
I have started to notice a fair amount of wear on the barrel shoulders of my K-80. I have owned the gun for about 2 years now and run about 20,000 rounds through it a year. It has been to Ottsville twice now for an annual check-up. I lubricate the gun before every use and clean the gun after every use.
Would it harm the gun to ease the opening lever over after closing the barrels? This practice would seem to eliminate the drag of the barrel lock over the barrel shoulders.
I talked to Ottsville and they said that this could disrupt the timing of the gun. I have tried it a little bit and experienced no adverse timing issues.
This is my first time visiting your site and can see that you have a vast knowledge of guns and K-80's in particular. I just wanted your professional opinion.
Thanks,
John
Re: Closing a K-80 Alan - 21:22 07/04/2003
Hi John,
Holding the top lever across when closing the gun is a fairly common practice amongst K-80 shooters here in the UK. The factory advice is to just open and close the gun normally as this ensures that everything is locked up as it should be. The problem with holding the lever across, closing the gun and then releasing the lever is that the top latch does not exert the same pressure downwards as it does when it is cammed back and shot forward by the action of the barrels passing it. You can prove this with a feeler gauge under the barrel wings. Bottom line is that the gun is designed to work this way and holding the lever across changes the way the action locks up. The wear is normal and will not pose any significant problem. In extreme cases there are a number of options including oversize top latches. If I told you that fitting one of these is such a rare event that we sell tickets you will get the picture. K-80s go on for ever without any special treatment and so my advice is to just shoot the gun and let the gunsmiths worry about the wear.
Alan
stock fit dave - 02:15 08/04/2003
ALAN,
I have a question concerning the way a gun sits in your shoulder. I shoot sporting clays with a low gun,when I mount the gun with the proper sight picture the heel of the stock sits up above my shoulder by about an inch.I dont know if this is because of my build or is it a faulty mount?I am about 6' 4" and about 300 pounds. It doesnt effect my shooting that I know of other than I grind the toe of the pad down on my guns for comfort the toe of the pad tends to poke me in my chest othrwise.I have lots of ideas about it but none based on knowledge just speculation. thanks in advance. Dave
Re: stock fit Alan - 08:25 08/04/2003
Hi Dave, yours is not an uncommon problem. When you mount a gun correctly you should bring the gun up to your face and pull back into the shoulder. If the drop at heel on the gun matches the distance between the underneath of your cheek bone and your shoulder the stock will hit in the right place. If the stock is sitting up above the shoulder it is because there is not enough drop at heel for you.
There is one factor in your style that can influence the gun position in the shoulder. If you stand very upright you will need more drop at heel than if your stance is weight forward with your upper body inclined towards the target. For sporting clays you do not want to overdo this as upright is good but you can be too upright with your weight on your back foot. This is something to check.
Many shooters mount the gun into the shoulder first and then drop their head onto the comb and this can cause problems. Our natural ability to point depends on minimal head movement and normally with a head-up attitude. If you drop your head as you point you have severely damaged your ability to do so accurately. Dropping your head puts tension in the neck muscles and this will cause you to lift your head sooner or later and we all know that this invariably results in a lost target. Lastly, dropping your head impairs your vision which is always better if your head is upright.
Having the stock up above the shoulder is not a big problem as far as shooting goes but you are getting more recoil because the load is not spread over the whole pad, just the portion in contact with the shoulder. You may also find that your muzzle climb is a little more than it should be because the line of the barrels is higher above the shoulder. One solution is to fit a pad adjuster and drop the pad so that you have contact over the whole surface. This will help the recoil but will not lower the barrels. Even so the increased pad contact will allow you to control the gun better. Might be worth a try.
Loose Part mill4570 - 01:41 10/04/2003
Alan, When I took my K-80 out of it's case, I found a small part lying close to the receiver. The part came from just above the left cocking lever, above and forward of the left pivot. The receiver looks like one solid piece in this area but it isn't. Do I need to send the receiver to KI for repair? Is this some sacrificial part that needs replacing on occasion? Is the gun OK to shoot if this part falls out and is lost?
Richard K.
Re: Loose Part Alan - 08:06 10/04/2003
Richard, the part you have found is an impact stud that is inserted into the front of the receiver at the point that the ejector hits. In the past all the Model 32s had a similar part but the K-80 was considered hard enough to stand the repeated impact without damage. Recently Krieghoff have started to fit these impact studs to the new K-80s, mainly due to improvements in the material and hardening process. The part should have a pin that fits into a hole. Yours may have just come out of the recess or possibly the pin has broken off. You should not shoot the gun with this part missing as you will almost certainly do some damage to receiver and extractor. You should let KI have a look at this as they need to know if this is a problem that needs a design change. Sorry for the problem.
Re: Loose Part mill4570 - 14:57 10/04/2003
Alan, The part does not appear broken, in fact I was able to tap it back in and everything looks OK. My fear is it may fall out again (during a tournament) and is lost. I have a call in to KI. Thanks for the "heads up".
Richard K.
Re: Loose Part Alan - 17:13 10/04/2003
Richard,
If the part is not broken then you can safely put it back in with some Loctite Studlock (Green). I have already reported that yours came out to the factory.
Alan
Re: Loose Part mill4570 - 02:49 11/04/2003
I guess I should have waited for your reply and used the Loctite. Instead, I paniced and shipped the gun to KI. The really bad news is they wanted the entire gun not just the receiver. The cost of the insurance was more than the overnight shipping.
Thanks again for your help.
Richard K.
Re: Loose Part Alan - 07:39 11/04/2003
Probably best for KI to take a look as they really need to know why this happened on your gun. Whenever we hear of a problem here we generally like to see the gun as this is how you prevent future incidents. Sorry you had all the cost and inconvenience though.
K-80 Lightweight Receiver mill4570 - 23:11 14/04/2003
Alan,
Can you give me the pros and cons of the K-80 LW receiver? What are the materials of construction? How do they lighten the receiver if other than materials? Do the guns hold up as well as the standard weight? Do you know of anyone (famous?) shooting a LW in competition? I read what you have on the Signature LW, but this is not the receiver I am talking about. I understand there is another receiver here in the US that ia only a half pound or so lighter.
Richard K.
Re: K-80 Lightweight Receiver Alan - 19:42 15/04/2003
Hi Richard,
Krieghoff only make one lightweight receiver and this is the same as we use for the signature LW. The material used is Dural, a type of aluminium. The receiver has a steel breech face and impact points but there is no way it can take the abuse that a steel receiver does. That said I do know of many LW K-80s that have done a lot of shooting and are still going strong. This receiver is popular with Skeet shooters here in the UK who fit sub-gauge tube inserts and a Precision Fit Stock. The LW receiver helps keep the gun down to an acceptable level.
Drawings mill4570 - 01:01 16/04/2003
Alan,
Are there any drawings or exploded views of the K-80 action that consumers can have. I think it would be beneficial to see how the action and trigger work internally.
Richard K.
Re: Drawings Alan - 01:20 16/04/2003
There is a parts schematic that you can download from the KI website by following this link:
http://www.krieghoff.com/pages/downloads/K-80PartsSchematic.pdf
k20 chambers ginnyoneuk - 16:39 17/04/2003
Alan,
me again!
I am hoping to go to look at a used K20 on Saturday. The dealer told me that he needs to send the gun back to you to have it updated to have "chrome chambers", maybe I heard wrong but what's that all about? Also are there any other updates to the K20 that I need to be aware of?
thanks
alan w
Re: k20 chambers Alan - 17:48 17/04/2003
No mystery here. All new K-80 and K-20 guns destined for the UK now have chrome plated chambers. This is something we decided to do to help with the ejection problems some of our customers were experiencing with certain cartridges. The hard chrome surface is more resistant to damage from over-hard cartridge heads and has the added benefit of not rusting if missed during cleaning. We do not chrome the bores, just the chambers. The chrome plating can be done on used guns but we have to return the gun to the factory in Germany and it will be away for 8 weeks minimum. Personally speaking neither my K-80 or K-20 have chrome chambers and I have no intention of getting them done as I do not have a problem with the cases getting stuck nor do I have a problem with chamber rust.
Sticky Choke Tube mill4570 - 17:42 21/04/2003
Alan,
I have a single K-80 choke tube that screws in fine until the last 1 and 1/4 turns. I have to use the wrench to screw it in the rest of the way. This is true for either barrel. All my other tubes can be screwed in with just your fingers. The tube threads are clean and it does not appear damaged. Its just a pain to drag the wrench out for that one tube. It feels as if the tube skirt starts to drag on one side as it enters the skirt area in the barrel, like the tube skirt may be out of round. Are there any tricks or does Norbert need to check it?
Thanks,
Richard K.
Re: Sticky Choke Tube Alan - 18:01 21/04/2003
Hi Richard,
Was it always this way or has it just become tight? If tight since new I would say it is just a tube on the large side of tolerance. Choke tubes should be a snug fit as this ensures they do not move around with vibration. I have seen choke tubes in some guns (not Krieghoff) that could be rocked side to side unless they were nipped up tight. You will notice that K-80 chokes have very little sideways movement even when loose. Everything is made to a tolerance, +/- a dimension. You probably just have a tight one and if you ask KI I am sure they will exchange it for you. If the tube was originally loose but has become tight then I suspect that the skirt has been crushed and gone out of round. You can re-shape this with a tapered tool - Brownells offer one that is quite useful if you get a small flat on the skirt of the tube.
Alan
Re: Sticky Choke Tube mill4570 - 15:57 22/04/2003
Alan,
The choke has not always been sticky so I must have bumped it some where along the way. It does not appear out of round at the skirt but it must be since this problem just started and none of my other chokes do this. Could you give me more information on the Brownells tool? Part number etc. That sounds like the way to go. I don't want to give up on this choke its a .013 #1 (we talked about in an earlier post) that really shoots well. Thanks again for your help.
Richard K.
Re: Sticky Choke Tube Alan - 17:41 22/04/2003
I looked in the current Brownells catalogue - #55 - and cannot find it. I am sure they called it a choke iron. Mine has Clymer Tool marked on the handle so perhaps you could give them a try. I have had mine a few years and it works very well.
Alan
which choke? phil - 21:48 21/04/2003
Dear Alan
Which choke make throws the best pattern? The factory type or the briley. Is there a difference, if so, what are the characteristics of each type?
Also, is there any difference in balance between a 30" and a 32" barreled gun? Thanks very much
Phil
Re: which choke? Alan - 23:08 21/04/2003
Phil,
both choke systems throw excellent patterns. I would say that the factory system throws the most consistent patterns with the greatest range of ammunition. No surprise there as those tubes are designed as a part of the complete barrel system. Both systems will throw more than adequate patterns for breaking targets. The main factor in deciding which to go for is your personal preference as to balance and handling. The factory chokes are the stronger of the two systems as they have thicker walls but this does equate to more weight at the muzzle. All things being equal the 32" barrels will be heavier than the 30" and this would translate into a gun with more forward weight. If you choose a heavier stock to offset this difference you will find the balance on both guns similar. I have a particular preference as to weight distribution - just a little weight forward - and I always adjust my guns to have that feel. I can tell you that it is no harder to achieve with a 32" factory choked gun than it is with the 30". Overall weight is more but that keeps the recoil down.
trip to factory Ray Simmons - 16:47 29/04/2003
I have recently bought a K-80 and thought it would be good to go to the factory to see how it was all put together do you arrange these as a group thing,or do i have to get in touch with the factory and make my own arrangments.Thanks Ray
Re: trip to factory Alan - 18:56 29/04/2003
I can arrange a factory visit for you or a group any time. It would have to fitted in around factory commitments to attend shoots and exhbitions but we can usually accomodate if we have reasonable notice. You would fly to a nearby airport - Stuttgart or Friedrichshafen normally, and someone from the factory in Ulm would collect you. I can book overnight accomodation nearby and you will get a guided tour around the facility. This would normally take a little less than half a day. The town of Ulm is definitely worth a look if your schedule allows. Just contact me and let me know when you would like to visit.
K80 2002 CLASSIC FITASC Jason Sheehy - 17:53 08/05/2003
I recently saw a reciever that had a special engraving on it for the 2002 CLASSIC FITASC held there in the UK. I was wondering how many of those recievers were made and how they were distributed. (If they were sold or were a prize) Also is this something they do every year. Any information you have would be great. Thanks Again,
Jason Sheehy
London, OH, USA
Re: K80 2002 CLASSIC FITASC Alan - 19:17 08/05/2003
Krieghoff sponsored two events in the UK last year. The first, held at the end of May, was the Krieghoff Classic DTL Championship. The high gun prize was a specially engraved K-80 with the legend "Krieghoff Classic DTL 2002". This event was won by Bob Taylor who now shoots with his prize. The second event, held in September, was the Krieghoff Classic FITASC Championship. The high gun prize for this event was a specially engraved K-80 with the legend "Krieghoff Classic FITASC 2002". This gun was won by Richard Faulds.
Cleaning K-80 Nino Olivares - 21:58 13/05/2003
Hello Allan, First, let me congratulate you for the great improvement and very information site. I have in the past asked you opinion on K-80 trap gun. I've finally decided and recently purchased a new K-80 trap gun with unsingle barrel. So far I have shot about 2K rounds and would like to get your advice on properly cleaning the gun.
In a recent cleaning I noticed that the barrel has started to accumulate what looks like plastic residue inside the barrel, perhaps from the plastic wad. Could you tell me the proper barrel cleaning and the frequency? What would you recommend for cleaning implements? Thank you in advance!
Nino Olivares
Re: Cleaning K-80 Alan - 22:38 13/05/2003
Thank you for your kind remarks. Glad you enjoy the site and hope you find it useful.
The palstic accumulation is a build up from the wads. During progress up the bore the heat and friction generated, welds plastic to the sides. If you don't remove all of this when you clean the gun the next outing will add another layer and so it goes on. Cleaning with an ordinary brush or pull through will simply not get this plastic off. It does however, polish it with the result that it becomes invisible when you look through the bore. The easiest and best way to remove the plastic is with a barrel cleaning solvent. Note that I mean a solvent especially made for the job not any general purpose aerosol "oil" that you happen to have nearby. There are many brands out there and just choose one that will dissolve plastic. A favourite of mine here in the UK is Parker Hale 009 that is available in an aerosol. I have used hoppes No.9 in the past with good results. Bear in mind that this solvent also dissolves nickel so keep it away from your K-80 receiver. My routine is to wipe the barrels through when I return from the shoot and then spray up the bores with the solvent. I stand the barrels muzzle down on an old rag and leave them overnight. sometimes I leave them a couple of days. when you next pick them up you will find that the dissolved plastic is hanging from the bore walls like black paper - amazing and frightening. You cannot believe that stuff was stuck there. If you have not done this for some time you will almost certainly find that some areas are stubborn and you will still see streaks after wiping the solvent out. Just repeat the process until it has all gone. If there are some very stubborn areas you may need to scrub with a phosphor bronze brush and solvent to get it all off. Over time you will find that the plastic does not stick so easily and this is probably to do with a protective film left behind by the solvent. Once you have the bore clean it is actually very little work to clean in the future.
Noise Jim Wise - 23:50 18/05/2003
Alan,
Thanks for a great website and your attention to K80 shooters.
Last week I let a man shooter use my K80 because he is going to buy one this summer and he wanted to try one out. After shooting the gun, he said that he noticed a "Pinging" noise when the hammer fell, he was shooting the bottom barrel first. I haven't heard this noise myself but he swears that he heard it several times while shooting a round of skeet. Do you have any ideas what this could be and why one person would hear it and another wouldn't? Have you ever heard of this before? The gun has been regularly serviced by Krieghoff in Ottsville. Thanks for your reply. Jim
Re: Noise Alan - 21:21 19/05/2003
Hi Jim,
No I have never heard this before and I cannot think of anything that could be responsible. I am guessing one of two things, either he is listening to the mechanical selector switching barrels (although I never hear this myself) or it is just a put down remark made by a shooter who wants to justify not buying a K-80. That one I have heard before.
If your gun is working well and has been serviced I would not worry about a noise that you cannot hear. I am sure it is nothing.
Alan
Re: Noise Harry Wiley - 16:45 23/05/2003
Alan--
I definitely hear the mechanical barrel selector do its job when the trigger is released if my head is on the stock in the proper place. On my K80's it is very noticeable. I do not think I "hear" it through the air, but the vibrations are transmitted through the wood. I consider it normal.
Harry Wiley
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